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Old January 30th, 2011, 12:35 AM   #1941
go_leafs_go02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plumber73 View Post
We'll have to start calling you Dibble "Jersey Barrier" Zee... Anyways, the commuting times in Vancouver Metro are very comparible to the other cities in Canada, and I've heard several times we have among the shortest average commute times of all the major Canadian cities. So, are we really behind that much?
Yes, we are.

I commute daily to Surrey, and I don't think there is a single place in North America where the roads have been put off this long for so long.

Port Mann should have been twinned, expanded easily 15-20 years ago. Gateway is a nice patch, but still, it won't be perfect. Alot of shortcutting and cheaping out is being done on the project.

160 Street interchange in Surrey is being designed as a major pinch point because only 2 general purpose lanes will actually fit under the overpasses. There will be an HOV lane as well, but how do you go from 3 lanes from 200 street all the way into Vancouver, with the exception of one interchange?

the SFPR is continually having its interchange turn into signalized intersections, which being a truck route, will destroy any travel flow due to trucks having to slow down, stop, and regain speed again.

Massey Tunnel is a gongshow, the Alex Fraser bridge is backed up for kilometers every morning, there's a TRAFFIC LIGHT on a freeway because someone doesn't want to cut down a tree or build an offramp.

There are no plans to expand the highway out to the Fraser Vally (Abbotsford, Chilliwack) nor does the Province have any additional plans or projects for the Lower Mainland once this is done.

I know for a fact, that my vote would easily go towards someone who's solution is improving the transportation network for all facets. Just because some hippies in Vancouver don't like freeways, doesn't mean that should dictate provincial policy for all.
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Old January 30th, 2011, 01:03 AM   #1942
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They still haven't addressed those awful looking pre-cast barriers with the holes in them. They'll be lining the new stretch of highway's center median
The two round holes in each section? I think those are casting/sling (since not all trucks are equipped with scissor style grabbers) holes. They also allow temporary construction signs to be mounted on the barrier.
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Old January 30th, 2011, 02:45 AM   #1943
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Yes, we are.

I commute daily to Surrey, and I don't think there is a single place in North America where the roads have been put off this long for so long....
I'm not saying the upgrades aren't necessary or anything like that. Just saying the average commute time here is on par with every other major Canadian city. I drive all over Greater Vancouver with my work, and I totally see the same things you're seeing. Just be glad you don't live in Surrey and commute into Vancouver.

Btw - whenever I've had to drive to Surrey, it might take me around 40 minutes from Kits in the morning. On the return trip home, maybe up to twice that long.
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Old January 30th, 2011, 03:01 AM   #1944
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You mean the barriers they've crudely placed in one of the left hand lanes? Yeah those don't have holes.

As for the rest of that road it doesn't have barriers at all in the middle. They cheaped out completely and just put a tiny median filled with shrubs in between the lanes.

BC is building now because for the last 40 years its put off all these necessary upgrades while every other region in north america was building and planning for the future Never mind building for the coming decades, BC is trying to build their highways to handle capacity numbers from 10 years ago. What a joke.

As for aesthetics our highways just look strange compared to others. Its not a lack of funds, its a lack of design unity with the rest of the continent. We'll spend the money bringing our highways up to our own twisted, inbread standards


I see you have never driven much of the GEW. I also love how you say crudely put into place, man, such a spinner.

There is a centre median barrier from the GEW / Lougheed intersection in Maple Ridge all the way to just past the 200th street off ramp fly over. This is the entire highway's free flow stretch about 5km long. There are also shoulder barriers as well along much of that portion and beyond (such as the Ridge Meadows viaduct and the entire elevated bridge portion / approaches which I believe is 2.5 km long.) And yes, they have no holes and are not crudely put into place.

And as for go leafs go and fargo wolf, all of the information about the current design of the SFPR and the #1 are posted on the previous page by me.

The SFPR was first proposed with 4 interchanges, then it went up to 5, before going back down to 3. Luckily the most important junction (the 99) is being built as a full interchange (originally it was proposed only the 99 would be free flow and the SFPR would have 2 intersections), so this aspect for the SFPR has actually been improved in the finalized design. Yes, I too wish it was being built as a full freeway, but it will only have 5 or 6 at grade intersections along its 40km route, and 3 free flow interchanges, which will be far superior for truck traffic than their current options. And these intersections can be easily converted into interchanges in the near future. I forget who said it but someone said that the SFPR is going to be similar to the #10, i think that is not a fair comparison at all, instead it is more similar to the 91 when it was first opened in the mid 80s, a divided 4 lane freeway with interchanges and intersection spaces far apart akin to a full freeway.

Many people on here may not remember this but when the 91 / Alex Fraser bridge was first constructed the 91 / 91 A junction was an at grade traffic light, as was the 91 / West Minster Highway intersection, the Howes St 91 intersection and the 72nd Ave / 91 intersection.

Only a few years after opening the 91/91A and Westminster Highway junctions were upgraded to full interchanges and just 3 years ago the Howes St. junction was upgraded into a full interchange.

The 72nd Ave intersection was also suppose to be upgraded to a full interchange at the same time as the Howes St interchange upgrade, but there was a dispute between MoT and the city of Delta on the design, so it was never built even though the funds were available at the time (Delta wanted a west bound 72nd fly over to south bound 91 but the MoT felt this was not needed, because those who wished to travel southbound could just use the 64th Ave interchange less than 1km down the road.)

So, while I do wish they were building the SFPR 100% freeway off the bat, i am willing to bet in 10 years the majority, if not all, of the at grade intersections will have been upgraded to interchanges.

As for the Highway 1 project, that is a gigantic project and anyone who has problems with it shows that no matter what is built, there will always be those who will complain that it is not enough.

There has been a highway upgrading / building frenzy in the Metro Vancouver area over the past few years and it is suppose to continue for a few more, with more projects in the works, but I am sure the same posters who said our roads are terrible a few years ago, and now, will be the same saying the exact same thing 5 years from now, simply because there is no pleasing some people.

For fun, here is a short list off the top of my head of highway projects in and near the Metro Vancouver area:

Within Metro Vancouver

Highway 15 (20km long) and highway 10 (26 km long) were both widened from 2 lanes to 4 (this was completed in 2008 / 2009 I believe)

The Howes St interchange was built on the 91 and the the 91 / Stewardson Way interchange was completely re-built. Also completed aruond 2008 / 2009.

Much of King George Boulevard has been increased from 2 to 4 lanes. (Much of these 4 lane expansion projects include the replacing of many small bridges)

The Golden Ears Bridge and GEW was built (opened in 2009), which included 3 interchanges and involved 5 km of elevated road deck (the Maple Meadows viaduct and ramps, the GEB itself, the south approach viaduct which is over 1km long and its ramps and several other smaller overpasses and bridges built along the route).

The new 7 Lane Pitt River bridge just opened last year and it included the construction of a new interchange between the #7 and #7b on its western approach.

A new 600 meter long cable stayed viaduct was built in Port Coquitlam over the train yard, plus its approaches and new connecting intersections, this also opened last year and is called the Coast Meridian Overpass.

The new 10 lane Port Mann bridge plus the re construction of 13 interchanges along the #1 and the construction of 2 new rapid bus interchanges along the #1 and the addition of 1 to 2 new lanes in each direction along a 35 to 40 km stretch of the #1.

The new SFPR which will be 40 km long and includes the construction of 3 interchanges (but also 5/6 intersections)

A new interchange is being built in Richmond on the 91 with Nelson Road.

The North Fraser Perimeter Road involves several planned road improvement from Maple Ridge to the 91 in New Westminster. The first portion has been openly announced, but designing has not been decided on, which involves the extension of United Boulevard from where it currently ends west to meet with Brunette Avenue via an interchange. Other rumoured aspects of the NFPR include upgrading the Mary Hill bypass into a full freeway and making the #7 full freeway from the Pitt River Bridge to GEW in Maple Ridge. Potential designs for the NFPR is also why the Brunette interchange on the #1 highway project was downsized because there are potential plans to build a much larger interchange beside it in the near future intergrading the NFPR, the #1 and Blue Mountain Road, and therefore much of the traffic that would use the Brunette interchange would use this interchange instead and the proposed Brunette / United Boulevard I mentioned earlier.

The Patullo Bridge is scheduled to be replaced within the next 5 years, which will also likely include the construction of many new access roads (similar to the GEB).

A new proposal has been recently released detailing the re-construction of the #1 / Fern Street / Mountain Parkway interchange north of the Second Narrows Bridge.

Just outside of Vancouver

The Sea to Sky Highway, which was built plenty large enough considering its relatively light traffic numbers and the fact that the area it serves is very restricted when it comes to population growth (especially when compared to all the other areas surrounding Vancouver).

Several interchanges in Abbotsford along the #1 have been completely re-built, along with the addition of some new climbing lanes.

The entire #11 in Abbotsford was increased from 2 to 4 lanes (completed 2007 or 2008 I believe)

Several large sections of the #7 between Maple Ridge and Mission have been and are currently being twinned from 2 to 4 lanes.


So that is what I can think of right now off the top of my head.

but then again, this all means nothing to those who will never be satisfied and will continue to complain.

cheers!


I would also like to note that most of the people complaining about the roads in BC have yet to actually contribute to this thread via hard facts / diagrams / pictures / movies, all of which I have posted / contributed.

Last edited by Metro One; January 30th, 2011 at 03:56 AM.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 06:39 AM   #1945
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With the recent completion of the Larry Uteck interchange on NS 102 I figure I should get some video and pictures of it up. I'll do that within the next week or so. In the meantime, this is a video of NS 111 from its southern beginning on the Halifax side of the MacKay Bridge to the NS 118 junction at Exit 4, then north on the 118 to its terminus at NS 102 north.

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Old January 31st, 2011, 03:52 PM   #1946
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I would also like to note that most of the people complaining about the roads in BC have yet to actually contribute to this thread via hard facts / diagrams / pictures / movies, all of which I have posted / contributed.
I'm working on it. I do have some routes roughed out on Google Earth I just need to get the screen shots. They show the approximate routes that would provide a FAR more direct route from the coast to the Alberta border. Much of it would be in tunnel.
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Old February 3rd, 2011, 07:17 PM   #1947
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As promised, pics. Since I DON'T have a professional program, I had to do it with MS paint. As a result, the pics are on the craptacular side of things. I did my best though. The re-aligning would provide a far more reliable, shorter, as well as safer route to Alberta. Gradients would be substantially reduced, and closures would be virtually eliminated thanks to the tunnels. Making it all motorway is preferred, but even as a 2 lane highway with climbing/passing lanes, it would still far better than the current route now.

Red: This is the "Straight Line" route.

Yellow: Existing highway route to the best of my ability.

Green: Proposed route.

Below, are pics of what I would like to see happen for a route from tidewater, to the BC/AB border. The route is all re-alignments of pre-existing highway. The highways are the Trans Canada and BC 5 (Yellowhead) between Hope and Kamloops.

The first section is Hwy 5:

Overall view:


First re-alignment section. This merely straightens the highway. At this point, the grade would be no more than a 1% climb from here to the summit of the highway at/near the Coquihalla (Coke-a-halla) Pass.


Second re-alignment section. Because the highway would be higher now, the avalanche gallery (Great Bear Snowshed) could be eliminated and replaced with a bridge over the slide path, before the highway enters the second tunnel.


Third re-alignment section. Having crested the summit, the new routing of the highway now begins a gradual decent to Merritt. Again, the gradient would be about 1%.


Fourth re-alignment section. The new route would begin a gradual ascent leaving Merritt Northbound. Again, tunnels (not sure whether one or two would be required) would keep the gradient to a reasonable 1% as it climbs towards a new grade separated interchange for the town of Logan Lake.


Fifth re-alignment section. A new interchange would be required for the road to Logan Lake, as the new highway would enter a tunnel west of the current one. The greatest challenge here, would be routing the new road to avoid an environmentally sensitive area. Again, the gradient is about 1%
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Old February 3rd, 2011, 08:04 PM   #1948
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Part Two: Kamloops To the Alberta Border

From the west end of Kamloops, to the Village of Pritchard, the highway would follow the current route before turning due east and entering a series of three tunnels before reaching a point just south of Salmon Arm. The greatest challenges will be avoiding the built up areas and constructing a tunnel under the airport runway, a golf course and mobile home park. East of the mobile home park, the highway enters another tunnel, emerging at a locality known as Mara.


Between Mara and Revelstoke, at least four tunnels would be required (one of which will preserve the view hotel guests currently enjoy). the average gradient would be about 2%. The new route would place the highway on the north side of Three Valley Lake. A new interchange would provide access to the hotel and residences in the area. At Revelstoke, a new grade separated interchange is required to provide access to the community, as well as BC HWY 23 South. A new bridge over the Columbia carries the highway well above Revelstoke


After crossing the new bridge, a new interchange would provide access to Revelstoke from the east, before passing through a short tunnel. The highway then turns up a short side valley before passing through two major tunnels before reaching the City of Golden. The valley between the two tunnels lies within Glacier National Park. As such, a lot of VERY careful planning and construction would be required.


From Golden, the route would pass through at least five tunnels, the last of which would extend into Alberta. Avalanche galleries would also be required owing to the steepness of the mountains. Again, negotiations with the National Parks are required (Banff National Park for sure. Possibly Yoho as well.) as the easternmost portion would require upgradin of existing highway, as well as construction of new highway. Also, given the fact that this section also crosses into Alberta, negotiations would also be required with that government, though that won't be an issue, as they would like to see a much better route constructed.


And that's my dream route. I doubt it will ever happen, given the British Columbia Govt. is scared of having to build tunnels. Also, it's not the Greater Vancouver region, so the Govt. could care less.
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Old February 4th, 2011, 08:32 AM   #1949
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I think one of the priorities in the southern interior is to extend the Okanagan Connector to the Coquihala as it was suppose to in the first place. It stopped where it is now due to money but was meant to be build in the future. The only reasons they spent the money to twin it to Merritt is because when it was done years later the NDP Minister of Highways wanted it thru Merritt as he was the MLA from, you guessed it, Merritt,
Due to the very long incline and then decline from the south into the Merritt and the fact it is 20km out of the was it has had added an estimated 25 minutes to Kelowna from Hope and a staggering 40 minutes by truck. If you have ever been on the road you know the mountain in and out of Merritt from the south is a very steep and long one. Some times the transport trucks slow to a near crawl due to the grade and length of the grade.
If they would have extended The Connector it would be far more direct and avoid that entire mountain. That mountain is also so high that that is where the most accidents on the highway occur in the winter.
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Old February 4th, 2011, 05:54 PM   #1950
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Plans to extend the Connecter to the "Coke" have been abandoned, thanks to the City of Merritt. They threatened to sue for damages if the work went ahead. The claim was, was that there would be a substantial drop in traffic. (Like ANYONE would want to be in that s$$thole unless there was no other choice) The Provincial Govt, being the uber cowards that they are, immediately and permanently dropped plans to connect 97C to Hwy 5. Instead, we are stuck with the 4 lane that now exists up a steep hill.

Form Peachland, to Merritt needs to be completely re-built. It was never routed properly.
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Old February 4th, 2011, 11:24 PM   #1951
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^ Playing Devil's advocate. Does putting 3000 people out of business in order to save 20 minutes of travel time serve the common good?

This type of question comes up in Northern Ontario a lot with regards to twinning highways. At what point does the loss of business to a community outweigh the benefits of a higher speed highway.
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Old February 4th, 2011, 11:34 PM   #1952
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It will be if you consider the cost of traffic safety (or lack thereof) or the cost of a complete new alignment.
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Old February 5th, 2011, 12:24 AM   #1953
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It will be if you consider the cost of traffic safety (or lack thereof) or the cost of a complete new alignment.
That is a pretty glib one line assessment.
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Old February 5th, 2011, 12:27 AM   #1954
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^ Playing Devil's advocate. Does putting 3000 people out of business in order to save 20 minutes of travel time serve the common good?

This type of question comes up in Northern Ontario a lot with regards to twinning highways. At what point does the loss of business to a community outweigh the benefits of a higher speed highway.
That's just it. Had the damn thing been built properly, Merritt would have become a bedroom community to West Kelowna (Westbank), as well as Kelowna.

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It will be if you consider the cost of traffic safety (or lack thereof) or the cost of a complete new alignment.
Those jobs WERE lost (as in never created) thanks to the current alignment. Our chickens$$t Govt. is to scared to spend money to build a decent motorway, tolled or otherwise.

If either of you are interested, I can do up a map to sho how it should have been done.
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Old February 5th, 2011, 12:28 AM   #1955
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That is a pretty glib one line assessment.
It is. But you have to consider that for every 1 km of new alignment cost, you can also expropriate 20 or 30 buildings. (rural areas, non over-inflated housing prices)
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Old February 5th, 2011, 12:31 AM   #1956
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That's just it. Had the damn thing been built properly, Merritt would have become a bedroom community to West Kelowna (Westbank), as well as Kelowna.


Those jobs WERE lost (as in never created) thanks to the current alignment. Our chickens$$t Govt. is to scared to spend money to build a decent motorway, tolled or otherwise.

If either of you are interested, I can do up a map to sho how it should have been done.
I don't think you can argue that. Highway 97C (which I have driven by the way) is a hell of a highway, so are the upgrades at the Port Mann. So at somepoint along the way BC's chicken shit government built a decent highway.
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Old February 5th, 2011, 12:35 AM   #1957
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I don't think you can argue that. Highway 97C (which I have driven by the way) is a hell of a highway, so are the upgrades at the Port Mann. So at somepoint along the way BC's chicken shit government built a decent highway.
But only AFTER the population in the Vancouver region got to where it is now... The project(s) going on down there now, SHOULD have been done 20 years ago. Hell The Alberta Govt was expanding their highways on a large scale at that time. Not only for safety, but for future population increases. Even various Municipalities were planning future routes at that time.
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Old February 5th, 2011, 12:42 AM   #1958
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But only AFTER the population in the Vancouver region got to where it is now... The project(s) going on down there now, SHOULD have been done 20 years ago. Hell The Alberta Govt was expanding their highways on a large scale at that time. Not only for safety, but for future population increases. Even various Municipalities were planning future routes at that time.
Ok, but Alberta is flat. It costs the Alberta Government comparatively nothing to build four lane highways everywhere. Compared to eastern standards, population density is nothing, so land should be pretty cheap. Not to mention the fact that Alberta is swimming with oil, one of the most valuable commodities on the face of the earth.

As a roadgeek I may not like it, but I can see justification for leaving Merrit on the highway system. Merrit is way to far away from Kelowna to be a suburb. Yeah, a freeway to freeway interchange would be better from a traffic perspective, but probably not from the Town of Merrit's perspective. The trouble with Transportation Authorities is that they have to balance providing good transportation service with the other needs of the population of the province.

I will give you this, Highway 1 through Kicking Horse Pass was embarrassing as the route of our national highway -- and it took way to long to upgrade.
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Old February 5th, 2011, 06:42 AM   #1959
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The impact on Merritt argument doesn't wash. Very little of the traffic bound for
Kelowna stops there anyway.
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Old February 5th, 2011, 05:46 PM   #1960
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That's the excuse that was used. And it worked, sadly.
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