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Old June 23rd, 2007, 06:25 AM   #1
checco24
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PORTUGAL | High Speed Rail

According to Jornal de Negócios the State will put forward five concession for the High Speed Train: two along the Lisbon-Porto line and two for the line between Lisbon and Madrid and another between Porto and Vigo.

The concessioners will be responsible for the planning, building, financing and management of each concession. Besides these a further concession will be launched for signalling and telecommunications.

The Government has set the end of 2013 as the target for the completion of the Lisbon-Madrid which is to be used both for high speed and regular trains (350 Km/H), with stops at Évora and at the border Elvas/Caia. The estimated cost is of 2.4 billion euros and it includes a new bridge over the Tejo river, between Chelas and Barreiro. In Spain the stops are at Badajoz, Mérida, Caceres, Talavera de La Reina and Madrid.

The Lisbon-Porto line (300 Km/h)will be completed by 2015 with stops at Aveiro, Coimbra and Leiria and at the future airport at Ota. The total investment is of 4.7 billion euros.

The Porto-Vigo, Aveiro-Salamanca and Évora-Faro-Huelva lines are projects which the Government will only entertain once the other lines are up and running and their profitability has been gauged.

here is a map of future high speed lines in Portugal
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Old June 25th, 2007, 12:04 AM   #2
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Checco24, thank you for the update
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Old June 28th, 2007, 02:20 PM   #3
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Ojalá se haga pronto, porque realmente sería muy importante para el crecimiento de la economia portuguesa.

y no estaría mal hacer un Barcelona-Lisboa en 5 o 6 horitas a 350km/h...
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Old June 28th, 2007, 02:23 PM   #4
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I hope that this HSL will be real, and not another dream of governments, it's approved now? This would be fantastic for the portugal economy and development!
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Old June 29th, 2007, 08:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdf11 View Post
Ojalá se haga pronto, porque realmente sería muy importante para el crecimiento de la economia portuguesa.

y no estaría mal hacer un Barcelona-Lisboa en 5 o 6 horitas a 350km/h...
un ejemplar unico de un español ( no gallego) qué no habla mal de portugal!

Gracias!
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Old July 1st, 2007, 11:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tugavalenciano View Post
un ejemplar unico de un español ( no gallego) qué no habla mal de portugal!

Gracias!

Aquí tienes otro, somos vecinos y casi hermanos. Ya va siendo hora de que vivamos juntos y no de espaldas, cuando no peleados. Estamos condenados a tener lazos históricos, esperemos que de ahora en adelante de amistad.

Obrigado
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Old July 2nd, 2007, 12:32 AM   #7
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Aupa Portugal!

Esperemos que se haga realidad ya que supondría un avance muy importante para Portugal! El proyecto tiene buena pinta.

Benga, agur!
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Old July 4th, 2007, 05:17 PM   #8
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Pero que españoles tan simpaticos...
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Old July 5th, 2007, 06:57 PM   #9
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You have a very bad preconceito of Spaniards. We don't eat Portuguese people .


Now, seriously, I hope that Portugal can built soon the Lisbon-Madrid HSL. I'm sure it will be great for Portuguese economy.
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Old July 8th, 2007, 04:10 AM   #10
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Nice project.
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For the best photos or information on Portugal, visit the PORTUGUESE FORUM.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 07:22 PM   #11
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Amazing project! It would be great for Portugal. HS is the way to go when talking about railway.
I hope Madrid-Lisboa HSL works doesn't take too much time. The first steps have already been done and some parts of the line are going to start works soon. Doesn't it also stop at Toledo?. There's already a HSL there and I thought the route was changed to make it go through Toledo and take advantage of that HSL already built.
Anyway, great job Portugal!
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Old July 9th, 2007, 10:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growingup View Post
Amazing project! It would be great for Portugal. HS is the way to go when talking about railway.
I hope Madrid-Lisboa HSL works doesn't take too much time. The first steps have already been done and some parts of the line are going to start works soon. Doesn't it also stop at Toledo?. There's already a HSL there and I thought the route was changed to make it go through Toledo and take advantage of that HSL already built.
Anyway, great job Portugal!
I am fairly sure that the station in Toledo is a "stub terminal" and the hills would make very difficult to adapt it to a through station. I have read one proposal which would have the new line joining the Toledo spur to avoid disrupting the AVE mainline to Sevilla again.
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Old July 11th, 2007, 12:15 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tugavalenciano View Post
un ejemplar unico de un español ( no gallego) qué no habla mal de portugal!

Gracias!
We are more than one!

Congratulations!!
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Old July 16th, 2007, 04:46 PM   #14
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Me alegro por Portugal, solo he ido una vez, hace 10 años, pero me encanto, es todo precioso y tan verde. Los proyectos son interesantes e ilusionantes, y un tren de alta velocidad siempre ayuda a comunicarse más y a conocerse mejor.
I hope the portuguese dreams can be true.
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Old March 15th, 2008, 04:54 AM   #15
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PORTUGAL | High Speed Rail

Some pictures and videos of current and past infraestructure improvement works in portuguese railway network:

The entire network (almost entire actualy) is like this:



Currently the High Speed network is like this:


timeline of "upgrades" to the network:


Legend:
Grey = where the HS services/trains run
blue = lines at 200km/h or more
Red = Porto-Lisboa-Madrid new HSL (works to begin soon)
Orange = Porto-Vigo new HSL (works to begin soon)
Green = "lines under construction" (take it with a grain of salt here)
Black = Major service withrawall (passenger traffic only)

There are 3 major lines currently at speeds equal or higher than 200km/h ... they are:

Linha do Minho /Ramal de Braga (Porto-Braga)
Linha do Norte (Lisboa-Porto)
Linha do Sul (Lisboa-Algarve)

The high sped trains are "tilting" Alfa Pendular of FIAT/Siemens technology .. .they run Braga-Porto-Lisboa , Porto-Lisboa and Porto-Lisboa-Faro services.
Non "true" HS trains included are:
190/200(?) km/h "Intercity" to Guimarães and Guarda(?)
160km/h "InterCity" to Guarda (?or is it 200?) , C.Branco , Faro
120km/h "Intercity" to Evora , Beja (hauled by diesel locomotives over partly 200/220km/h routes)
Talgo Tren-Hotel "Lusitania": 160km/h in northern line , 120/140 km/h on the rest of the route
"Sud Express" 140km/h in portugal/spain ... french part was replaced by a regular TGV service long time ago

Pictures will follow soon:
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"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Last edited by sotavento; March 21st, 2008 at 08:12 PM.
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Old March 15th, 2008, 06:59 AM   #16
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Southern Line is a NEW line linking Lisboa (Capital) with the touristic algarve down south ... It mostly runs on "upgraded" tracks on most of its journey and NEW( lets call them "recent" instead) tracks in some few cases.

The "upgraded" tracks are in fact 100% new track either they were built on the same place of the old track or not.

The Lisboa-Coina-PinhalNovo is an entire NEW line:
- wich was partly built in early 90's (10km single track not electrified) ...
- another large part built in late 90's (20km double track electrified wich included the "tagus" crossing over 25 de abril bridge , and large viaducts) ...
- and a 3rd "new" part (wich includes an almost 1km long tunnel and a 500m viaduct)
- the line is full of restrictions on it's 10km northern side:
º "tagus" crossing is limited to 60 km/h (40km/h for heavier trains)
º a couple of curves limited to only 45 km/h
º the viaducts and stations are not designed to high speeds so limits ranging from 130km/h to 160 km/h are abundant
- the new intermediate section and the original noe electrified section were completely built/rebuilt to HSL standards (speeds above 230km/h were reached in tests with LOCO HAULED rolingstock)
- since the train leaves Lisboa and goes in a complete circle before runing south it stops (comercialy) at Pinhal Novo wich a) sits in the middle of a 220km/h zone and b) is faster to acess from central lisbon than Oriente (its a 20 minute bus/car trip or a 40/50 minute train runabound journey.

This line is operated by "Fertagus" (private company) urban/comuter doubledecker trains and by CP (statecompany) long distance and freight trains.

From Pinhal Novo we can eithwer follow directly south to Setubal (the old "Sado line" now upgraded to 200 km/h up to setubal) or continue ahead to Poceirão (the old "South line") where the lines diverge again ... the old "South line" (now Alentejo line) continues to Evora and Beja and the "poceirão-agualva variant" (now a part of the new "south line" turns (at speeds od 220km/h) to the right where it meets the line from setubal.

From Agualva/Aguas de Moura and down south theres a mixture of single track High speed 220km/h , double track high speed 220km/h and single track "unrenovated" ... work still continues on upgrading the old track to HSL ... all "new" HSL is built to 250 km/h mixed traffic usage over there.

The south part of the "new" south line is only at some 110/140 km/h due to the sinuosity of the terrain ... it will be upgraded/replaced in the near future by a new HSL.

The "old" south line while mostly single track was built to allow for 2 tracks in the future ... 150 years and only the 30km in the Lisboa/Barreiro side are double track ... only the 15km P.Novo-Poceirão is up to standards (220km/h) while the rest is either at 140km/h or even at 100 km/h (from Beja to Funcheira) ... 50km of it are electrified (40 in the north and 10km in the south).

From poceirão the "old" south line continued to Vendas Novas (its electrified up to there) and then on to Casa Branca where it diverges in Y , one arm to Evora and the other south to Beja.

C.Branca-Evora will be a part of the NEW direct freight line to the border ... it is already renewed and prepared t oheavy freight and (optionaly) High Speed trains at up to 200/250 km/h.

In Beja a new airport will open this late summer (or before the end of the year) and there are plans to upgrade the line to 200/250 km/h also ... and even in due time to connect with Faro and Sevilla in a new HSL direct alignement.

A new HSL is to be built joining Lisboa to Madrid passing thru Evora and Badajoz ...
A New airport is also to be built south of the tejo (10km north of Poceirão) ....

So they joined both projects and a new cross Tejo railway bridge (4 tracks) will be built to connect Lisboa to the NAL (novo aeroporto de lisboa) , take 20/30 minutes of Lisboa-South trains , prvide more direct connections Lisboa-Setubal and serve as an exit to the HSL to Madrid.

The 180km between the Tejo south bank and the Border at Badajoz are entirely of almost FLAT terrain with nothing of importance to worry about ... a "mixed" freight/passenger HSL with speed of 300 km/h are due to star engeneering works before the summer ends.
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"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old March 15th, 2008, 07:43 AM   #17
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Pinhal Novo Station:

Old north exit:


Old Station:


Old south exit:



New north exit:

Photo by José Sousa @ railfaneurope.net

New Station:

Photo by José Sousa @ railfaneurope.net
Notice the TOWER in the middle of the tracks ... this is what happens when someone wants to IMPOSE something to the local populace ...

New South exit:

Photo by José Sousa @ railfaneurope.net


Poceirão station:

Looking west to Pinhal Novo:


Looking south to Ag. Moura/Funcheira/Algarve:


The station:


Looking East to Evora/Beja:


over there will be a MAJOR freight/container terminal in the near future and the new HSL will pass to the left of it.



Southbound Alfa Pendular speeds up:


full tilt passing by Poceirão curve:


Something coming fast at us:

Amoreiras viaduct ... some 140km south of lisboa ... 220km/h double track "upgraded" line (actualy the viaduct is a variant)
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"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça

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Old March 15th, 2008, 09:27 PM   #18
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Thank you for the photographs in your last post. They are not only impressive but really indicative of the the modern Portugese railway.

I posted a respose to your comments on my opinions on another thread a while ago and I am still reasearching all your comments in post #2.

In post #2 you do not provide any detailed citations for the operating speeds on the various segments which you discus. If you look at my history on SCC you will discover that most of my comments relate claims of high speed operations which are not substantiated.

I don't believe that that you have substantiated the operating speeds which you have quoted
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Old March 16th, 2008, 09:09 AM   #19
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Treat the topic as "work in progress" ... as I gather information I'll be putting things together and in a more orderly fashion. (even I lost myself when I read it today)


A funny in the current timetables is that the AP has 50 minutes given for Lisboa(Oriente) to Pinhal Novo while IC have 45 minutes with more intermediate stops.

It takes an Alfa Pendular 1h53 to make the 220km between Pinhal Novo and tunes (only half are run at 220km/h) ... the intercity trains (loco hauled old sorefame coaches limited to 160km/h) run the same route in 2h35/2h4 (with 5 intermediate stops).
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"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça

Last edited by sotavento; March 16th, 2008 at 09:28 AM.
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Old March 20th, 2008, 04:54 PM   #20
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Found some photos of Alfa Pendular trains in norhtern line laying around in imageshack:

Notice: Authors referenced in the pictures (or unknown)

Pendulating on "unrenovated" tracks


Pendulating at high speeds in Northern line:
image hosted on flickr






Crossing the Tejo Bridge (Almada-Lisboa):



São João Bridge (Gaia-Porto):
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"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça

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Last edited by sotavento; March 20th, 2008 at 05:22 PM.
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