daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 8th, 2010, 01:58 AM   #81
PokerManAA
Registered User
 
PokerManAA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7
Likes (Received): 0

I agrre with you but our prime minister does not.......He just wants to spend all of our money ntill we´re completely dry.........
__________________
:/Poker Bonus Without Deposit!:)
www.bestpokernodepositbonus.blogspot.com
PokerManAA no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 9th, 2010, 05:34 AM   #82
glamguy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 39
Likes (Received): 0

Dont let it happen anyways Pokerman.



glamguy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2010, 03:43 PM   #83
thun
Registered User
 
thun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,829

Still it's quite easy: If you don't have the money, you can't spend it but have to wait for a few years. Where to cut costs finally is a political decision. And it's normally easier to cut in such projects than in health insurance or the retirement system.
__________________
Folglich mein TagesTipp => Es genau so hinzunehmen wie ich es sagte. Notorisches Widersprechen wird nichts bringen. Ehrlich! Vertraut mir da voellig!
__________ __________ __________
thun no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2010, 05:32 AM   #84
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumbfword View Post
I don't see it happening. With Portugal's credit rating dropping everyday.
What does the "rating" have to do with anything ???


BEFORE those bloodthirsty SOB's started to "create" the rating crisis there WAS ABSOLUTELLY NO PROBLEMS ECONOMIC AT ALL here in portugal.

NOW WE ARE GETTING into BIGGGER AND BIGGER problems ... all caused BY those ratting lunatics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
Wouldn't the economic crisis cause this project to be first on the chopping block?
Why should ANY economic crisis cause the chopping of A MAJOR INTERSTATE corridor improvement ??????

There are 3 railways and 8 major roads (3 are actually highways) in those two corridors ... actually there's not even a DIRECT railway between the portuguese and the spanish capitals (12 million people live in that route)
and the current mainline between lisboa and porto is completelly colapsing due to overuse ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue raven View Post
Better use of the money would be to stop themselves turning into the next Greece. The line can come later.
No ... it's NOW with the STUPID preventive measures (completelly out of sinc with reality) are we going to surpass GREECe ... in a very "high speed" manner ...


For my calculations ... I foresee that due tpo the completelly UNREALISTIC rating depreciations and the complete OVERZEALOUS tax increases (we were already the EU country with the higher tax levels) amd the completelly STUPID cuts in WAGES and other stuff ... the economy will completelly colapse in 5 or 6 months ... tops. ..

The portuguese GDP in the last 5-6 years didn't increase MAINLY because the wages were COMPLETELLY FROZEN ... and they were frozen in extremelly LOW values ... I give you an example:

The stupid Socrates (our PM) as soon as he was elected for the 1st time increased IVA/VAT to 21% (maximum) ... neaby spain is at 15% so we ended up paying 6% more for EVERYTHING.
Public servants neve rsaw A SINGLE raise in their sallary in the last 10/15 years ...
Minimum wages up untill 1992 usually had double digits raises ... since 2005 it's more like 3% ... if any.
Last year the SOB Socrates got reelected by a very thin margin (the old lady of the oposing party was a dumber choise)
When he was near elections he choose to "drop" the VAT/IVA to 20% ... no he is raising it again to 21% ... even the minimum VAT/IVA is raising from 5% to 6% ... but he is also cutting benefits and increasing all other taxes.

In the end we got our private economy completelly SACKED and ROBBER ... and at the same time the state corporative machine raises itself and it's "living expanses" to incomportable levels ...

Tax collections more than doubled a couple or years ago (forcefull collections , judicial liquidation of companies and such) ... the following years they are creating their DUMB state budgets BASED not in realistic numbers but in those ODD values ... go figure ... tax collection droped by as much as 60% while the budged doubled ... here goes the skyrocketing deficit.

But that doesn't seem to matter to the macro economists ... they just smell blood ... too bad that if theres any blood in portugal ... it surelly must be from our barbecues and all night long partying.

Back to railways ...


Lisboa-Evora-Badajoz-Madrid is mostly track renewalll and upgrades ... the only new section needed is the evora-badajoz wich is missing (never was built) ... if one is to renew 150 yeares old trackage then the best way to do that if to built to the best standards available.

Lisboa Urban transport (comuter rail) carries around 100 million passengers/year ... Porto URban trains carry around 30 million/year.

Lisboa-Porto High Speed Services (called AlfaPendular) carry around 2 million pax/year (some 5000 pax/day) in about 2h20 ... there are tree possible solutions to aleviate the problem:

i) don't do a thing and the line between the two cities (320km long) remains completelly congested
ii) quadruplicate the remaining route (some 60km are quadrupled nowadays)
iii) build a new route (270km long) and remove the 40 HSR Alfa Pendular from the old route
They were going with option ii) but when it reached the 2.000 million €€€ they decided to put an halt to the demential upgrades to the old route (they weren't even quadruplicating the railway)... the new HSL wil cost problemble LESS THAN HALF than what would cost the remaining upgrade of the old route.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
And still the country desperately has to cut public spending. The opposition brought up the issue of infrastructure projects (HSR, Losbons new airport) which would cost huge amounts of money and aren't desperately needed. We'll have to see.
No ... not "the country" ... just the STUPID socialist government ...

If you create a state budget thinking with your belly ... you end up messing up ... the are in power since 2005 ... EACH AND EVERY YEAR they have been messing their budgeting.

Back on the HSR topic ... both routes are completelly self suficient ... Lisboa-Madrid is a "potential" cash-cow both in terms of passengers and intermodal traffic ... Lisboa-Porto is a "real" cash cow nowadays (it must be one of the only PROFFITING HSR services nowadays).

Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
Still it's quite easy: If you don't have the money, you can't spend it but have to wait for a few years. Where to cut costs finally is a political decision. And it's normally easier to cut in such projects than in health insurance or the retirement system.
There's much more gain in financin what little the state must finance in these major infraestructure works than in financing any other major investment ... anyway ... it will be mostly private financing anyway.

They spend every year between 500 milllion € and 700 million € in railways here nowadays ... the HSL projects are nothing more than NEW ROUTES built completelly ON BUDGET.

Most losses came not from the transport infraestructure works but from BAD PLANNING and POOR implementation of other sectors of the public investment and expenditure.


Too bad (for us) thar contrary to the recent years the MISSGOVERNMENT this year will reach our pockets ...
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2010, 06:21 AM   #85
dumbfword
Habitual Line Stepper
 
dumbfword's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 293
Likes (Received): 563

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
What does the "rating" have to do with anything ???


BEFORE those bloodthirsty SOB's started to "create" the rating crisis there WAS ABSOLUTELLY NO PROBLEMS ECONOMIC AT ALL here in portugal.

NOW WE ARE GETTING into BIGGGER AND BIGGER problems ... all caused BY those ratting lunatics.


Government credit ratings show if/when a country has the ability to payback loans, etc.

Who's gonna build a HSR in a country that can't even cover it's own government debt.
__________________
"I am the color red in a world full of black and white"
dumbfword no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 04:37 PM   #86
PokerManAA
Registered User
 
PokerManAA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7
Likes (Received): 0

Now the IVA has increased to 23%.........Our prime minister dosen´t have aclue of what he´s doing.......In his Head he´s playing "tropico", I didn´t got my vote in 2005 and neither on 2009.....he is messging up everything........
__________________
:/Poker Bonus Without Deposit!:)
www.bestpokernodepositbonus.blogspot.com
PokerManAA no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 10:43 PM   #87
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

What ???


3000M €€€+ 4500M €€€= 7500M €€€ /40 years

= 187M € /year


REFER spends some 700M€ per year ... at least they have spent such amounts every year in the last 20 years in the "ineficient" upgrades ...

Considering that much of those 7500M€ will come not from the state budget but from EU funds and "private" credit (from the companies that won the contracts for the concessions) ...

If they just maintain the current traffic level in that new HSL they will only receive 350M€ in "path-taxes" (in a 40 year long concession/)... about 1/10th of the total construction cost ... but on the other hand ... if you remove the High Speed trains from the OLD "Linha do Norte" you potentially have pathways able to generate as much as 5000M€ (or more) in those same 40 years (and this is just receipts from DIRECT INCOME from running pathways at current prices).

The expectable cost of the Lisboa-Porto HSR is 4500M€

They are currently building the 3rd (yes ... the THIRD) highway between Lisboa-Porto ... at current prices in the same 40 years the receipts from the TOLLs in the A1 motorway WILL REACH AT LEAST 17500M€ (or more, based on the traffic volumes in the less congested sections) ...

The potential for COLLECTING TOLLS is over 22500M€ in 40 years , 11250M€ in 20 years or just as low as 5625M€ in 10 years ... TEN years.

Imagine how many people will travell in that 3rd highway 10 years from now ... if you build the HSL and allow people to travel end to end in just 1h15 ...

the one guy who signs the paper claiming that such railway "shouldn't" be built deserves to be put on the stick and burn ...
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 10:59 PM   #88
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumbfword View Post
Government credit ratings show if/when a country has the ability to payback loans, etc.

Who's gonna build a HSR in a country that can't even cover it's own government debt.
No ... the dices are fixed ...


1) there was never a single time where the portuguese government FAILED to put a pretty good premium into those loan payments ... in fact the portuguese government seems to be very well "rated" where it counts in that sector.

Government debts are one thing ... bad budgeting is another completelly different thing ... that's the difference.

The party in government seems to be a specialist in cutting what doesn't need to be cut (creating problems to others) and missmanaging (a.k.a. indulging in overspending) where their own can reap ... a.k.a. corrupts to the core.

There is NO PROBLEM at all in building a new HSL or a new highway ... if it is "tolled" the government doesn't need to pay that much from their own pockets.

A 300km long HSR with 6tph (one each 10 minutes) at current REFER pathway prices pay tolls in excess of 1600M€ in a 40 year long concession* ... the gains from the removal of the AlfaPendular from Northern Line are in themselves enormous (imagine the trains that you can put in their place).

back to politics and state finances ... we were doing fine ... the stupid dork (aka Socrates) seems to have the touch of Midas in reverse ... everything that he touches turns into 5h1t.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2010, 03:29 PM   #89
PokerManAA
Registered User
 
PokerManAA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7
Likes (Received): 0

José Socrates isn´t worth of trust.......How can anyone here in Portugal lead the example of a man always involved in scandals
From the fact that he gratuated on a sunday to the "freeport" thing I don´t know wath´s the worst.........Somebody put our country out of misery and take Him out of power.......
__________________
:/Poker Bonus Without Deposit!:)
www.bestpokernodepositbonus.blogspot.com
PokerManAA no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2010, 06:13 PM   #90
thun
Registered User
 
thun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,829

You're missing out two points: Who guarantees that the line will be "full" for 40 years? And of course, you'll have to pay interest for the investment over a long time, and I'm pretty sure, that that is not included in your calculation.
Another thing: If you need money now to pay back bonds, you simply have to take it from somewhere - and, as I said, it's usually easier to cut from new infrastructure projects (which can be done a few years later as well) as from other sectors.
__________________
Folglich mein TagesTipp => Es genau so hinzunehmen wie ich es sagte. Notorisches Widersprechen wird nichts bringen. Ehrlich! Vertraut mir da voellig!
__________ __________ __________
thun no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 18th, 2010, 04:10 AM   #91
Andre_idol
Fluorescent Adolescent
 
Andre_idol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Barcelos > Oeiras, Portugal
Posts: 6,261
Likes (Received): 431

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerManAA View Post
that´s were all our money that we don´t have is going to..........
7 posts bashing people/projects...quite impressive.
__________________
School trip to: Brussels!
Andre_idol no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2010, 04:55 AM   #92
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Due to an accident in the old route the near-complete variant had to be put to service one month ahead of schedule.

The catenary masts and all unfinished sections of track had to be assembled overnight.

Here are some pictures of the new route under "limited service" (60km/h maximum speed with severe limitations over the main bridge)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vm
Variante de Alcácer (continuação)
Viaduto da Ribeira da Água Cova

PS sobre o IC1 (Recta de Alcácer a Grândola)

PK 94.5 - Grândola Norte

IC 670/671 parado à entrada da variante - Grândola Norte

(C) Vitor Manuel Gomes
Quote:
Originally Posted by vm
IC 570/571 - 1/11/2010
Entrada da variante - Lado Norte (Pinheiro)

Viaduto da Ribeira de São Martinho (Monte Novo)

Ponte sobre o Rio Sado



(C) Vitor Manuel Gomes
Quote:
Originally Posted by vm
Já no sentido inverso (Sul - Norte) - IC 672
1-11-2010
Ponte de Alcácer

Passagem sobre a Linha do Sul (na parte final da Ponte da Variante)

Viaduto sobre a Ribeira de São Martinho (Monte Novo)

Pinheiro

(C) Vitor Manuel Gomes

Currently the portuguese High Speed Network looks like this:



When things are finished in that section there will be some 130km of continuous 200/220km/h* trackage in the Southern Line.

The green section is currently being rebuilt (it's the conventional side of the Lisboa-BadajozMadrid mixed traffic HSL) ... the revised project calls for a speed of 160km/h for conventional trains in a completelly new and electrified trackbed ... 220/250km/h should be possible ... specially if they decide to downgrade from the 350km/h HSL from Evora to Lisboa(that section needs the new 10km long 3rd Bridge over the tagus river to be of any real value/usefulness).

*) notice: 200km/h = top speed of conventional loco hauled rollingstock , 220km/h = top speed of Alfa Pendular trainsets ... the route is built to speeds of "at least" 250km/h
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2010, 09:49 AM   #93
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

Thank you

When will the second track be built?
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2010, 10:25 PM   #94
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Strangely enough ... not anytime soon.



Due to the eclectic (to say the least) nature of the traffic using the route they will maintain the old route in operation for a very long long time.


Alfa Pendular will run at 220km/h in the new alignement 2x per day in each direction
Intercity trains will run at 140km/h in the old alignement 3x/4x per day in each direction ... caling at Alcaçer do Sal station(wich is on the old alignement)
Regional trains will run at 120km/h in the old alignement caling at Monte Novo and Alcaçer

Coal trains will run northbound(loaded) in the new alignement ... southbound (empty) in wichever route is available at the time

The general patter will probably be something like this:

If an AP is in the area it get's the new route for itself ... otherwise it's given to the heavier freight trains(coal/copper) ...
If an Ic is in the area then freight trains in the other direction are dumped in the new route ...




welcome to the house of madness wich is called REFER in this neighbourhood.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2010, 11:33 PM   #95
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

Do IC trains really have to stop at Alcaçer do Sal, a city of only 14.000 inhabitants?

If yes, and of there is no kuch other traffic other 2 AP, 4 IC and some freights, doing this pattern may be a good idea to save the money of the second track.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 14th, 2010, 10:26 PM   #96
vmrgomes
Registered User
 
vmrgomes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Lisboa - Portugal
Posts: 112
Likes (Received): 0

South Line

The new schedule will be at 12-12-2010
AP will pass at new line (Variante de Alcácer).
All ICs stop at Alcácer
The freight trains (coal/copper) will pass at new line except the Somincor Train that goes at actual line because the tecnical station (sand charge) is between Grândola Norte and Vale do Guizo.
__________________
O Ibérico

Last edited by vmrgomes; November 14th, 2010 at 10:42 PM.
vmrgomes no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2010, 11:30 AM   #97
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

Thank you. How much time do the AP gain running on the Variante instead than via Alcácer?
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 17th, 2010, 11:44 PM   #98
vmrgomes
Registered User
 
vmrgomes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Lisboa - Portugal
Posts: 112
Likes (Received): 0

Actually Alfa Pendular run between Pinheiro to Grândola in 20 minutes. At the middle next month change the schedules and AP crosses the new line and it gains 10 minutes of traject (Pinheiro to Grândola).
The IC trains still the actual line, because its stop at Alcácer do Sal.
__________________
O Ibérico
vmrgomes no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2010, 01:09 AM   #99
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Do IC trains really have to stop at Alcaçer do Sal, a city of only 14.000 inhabitants?

If yes, and of there is no kuch other traffic other 2 AP, 4 IC and some freights, doing this pattern may be a good idea to save the money of the second track.
Intercidades ("Inter city" in portuguese) do actually call at all cities and some major villages in their path ...


There are 3 regional and 3 intercity trains in each direction calling at alcaçer ... so it would be very dificult to remove that particular stop.



And that is one of the major problems with the "demential" idea that "pure bred" High speed trains are a good thing in countries with a population similar to the portuguese.

there are more high speed/express passengers here than there are in spain ... preciselly due to the difference of target areas served (here we serve a lot of small comunities and in spain only major metropolis have services).

Biggest long distance transport Hubs in portugal:

(1 million hab. in the minho metro area) 3x AP Lx-braga 1x IC Lx-guimarães
Braga 180.000 hab
Guimarães 160.000 hab
S.Tirso 1x IC
Trofa 1x IC
Famalicão 135.000 hab.

(1.8 million in the porto metro area)
Campanha(Porto) 216.000 hab 11x AP , 7x IC
Devesas(Gaia) 312.000 hab. 11x AP 7x IC
Espinho 25.000 hab. 2x AP 7x IC
Ovar 58.000hab 3x IC
Estarreja 28.000hab. 2x IC

Aveiro 73.000 hab. 11x AP , 7x IC
Mealhada/Pampilhosa 7x IC + 1x Sud Express (2 neighbouring stations)
Coimbra-B 11x AP , 10x IC , 1x Sud Express
alfarelos 1700 hab. 5x IC
Pombal 60.000 hab. 2x AP , 10x IC , 1x Sud Express
Caxarias/Fatima ~0 hab. (large catolic pilgrimage destination) 7x/5x IC + sud
Entroncamento 21.000 hab. (100.000 in the area) 2x AP , 13x IC + Sud + lusitania
Santarem 65.000 hab. 2x AP , 13x IC

(2,4 million in the lisboa metro area)
V.F.Xira 140.000 hab. 13x IC
Oriente(Lisboa) 11xAP 17x IC + Sud + Lusitania
S.apolonia(Lisboa) 540.000 hab. 9x AP + 13x IC + Sud + lusitania
Entrecampos(Lisboa) 2x AP + 4x IC

Pragal(Almada) +170.000 hab. 4x IC
Pinhal Novo(Palmela) +60.000 hab. 2x AP + 4xIC
Setubal 125.000 hab. 4x IC

Alcaçer 13.354 hab. 4x IC
Grandola 14.000 hab. 4x IC
Funcheira ~0 hab. 4x IC


Tunes 2000 hab. 2x AP + 4xIC (intercity /AP hub to western algarve, services some 500.000 potential passengers)
Albufeira 13.000 hab. 2x AP + 4xIC
Loulé 12.000 hab. 2x AP + 4xIC
Faro 42.000 hab. 2x AP + 4xIC (60.000 in metro area, some aditional 100.000 in eastern algarve , and then spain)

the 650km long atlantic corridor from Braga to Faro.

Add the Intercity connections Pampilhosa-Guarda (Beira alta line) and Entroncamento-C.Branco-Covilhã (Beira baixa line) who serve no major destinations and see where this network manages to gather 5,5 million passengers anually (and with a punctuality index of 99,9%).

There are 30 daily departures (AP/Intercity/express) from the Oriente Station (the 5 daily intercity trains to Evora/Beja are supressed until further notice due to the line being cut due to the upgrade/electrification works for the HSL Lisboa-Madrid in the V.Novas-Evora area) ...


so yes ... a small city with only 13.000 people deserves their share of intercity trains.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2010, 01:19 AM   #100
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Thank you. How much time do the AP gain running on the Variante instead than via Alcácer?
That is still to be seen ... the potential to gain a huge amount of time is there.

There's less 7km to deal with (25km vs 32km of the old alignement) and suposedly its 220km/h vs. the old alignement at 100/140km/h (with 60/80km/h restrictions)

I supose that the new section will take only 7 minutes to cross ... so well over 10 minutes can be saved.

Another section where time could be saved is in the Almada-Pinhal Novo section ... if they just reformulated/corrected the entrance of the Fogueteiro station they might even put the entire section at 200/220/250km/h ...

And that ... would mean that the new TTT wouldn't be needed anytime soon.

Given enough cars to Fertagus then it would be easy to aleviate the 25/4 crossing of enough paths for HSR to algarve , Alentejo and Spain.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium