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Old July 7th, 2013, 04:39 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrobico View Post
Portugal: No money, no line
Don't they have a line there today?

Is there any chance they'd let ADIF build a line inside Portugal with standard gauge?
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Old July 7th, 2013, 05:04 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Don't they have a line there today?
No.

Quote:
Is there any chance they'd let ADIF build a line inside Portugal with standard gauge?
NO.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 09:18 AM   #123
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Will Portuguese High Speed Rail mean the end of TAP domestic flights? Curious...
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Old July 7th, 2013, 10:35 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrobico View Post
Portugal: No money, no line
That nevers has stopped spain from building.

The biggest issue for Portugal is that the "troika" decides on things like these in the end.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 10:37 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
Will Portuguese High Speed Rail mean the end of TAP domestic flights? Curious...
It never ended flight traffic between Madrid and Barcelona either (50% market share as far a I know it). It's often been more econimical to fly for some people.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 04:56 PM   #126
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Hi there,

It makes a longue time that we did not about the HSR Madrid-Porto is there any timing for that?


I could find this map :





I think this line is an upgraded to V200 am i wrong?
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Old February 8th, 2014, 04:38 PM   #127
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There will never be a HSL Porto-Madrid, not even on a long term!!



In a far, far future (at least not before 2020) there will be no HSL in Portugal!! If some day the portuguese goverment decides to implement that network, the first line to be made will be Lisbon-Madrid, the second Lisbon-Porto and the third Porto-Vigo!!



The lines Aveiro-Salamanca and Évora-Faro-Huelva probably will never be made as HSL, particularly the Aveiro-Salamanca!!



Weeks ago the portuguese government presented a set of intentions for Eight rail projects that have been included in a list of 30 investment schemes.



One of the intentions is to complete the modernisation of the Beira Alta corridor linking Aveiro and Vilar Formoso on the Spanish border, that includes the instalation of bi-gauge beams, elimination of the constraints of the track in way to be possible freight trains of 750 meters and a northern direct link to the North Line in the Pampilhosa area!!


Map of the Beira Alta Line:
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Old February 8th, 2014, 05:13 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
There will never be a HSL Porto-Madrid, not even on a long term!!



In a far, far future (at least not before 2020) there will be no HSL in Portugal!! If some day the portuguese goverment decides to implement that network, the first line to be made will be Lisbon-Madrid, the second Lisbon-Porto and the third Porto-Vigo!!


The lines Aveiro-Salamanca and Évora-Faro-Huelva probably will never be made as HSL, particularly the Aveiro-Salamanca!!
Thanks nosso,

I found that the line Porto-Lisboa is a V220 like many HSR in Germany so there is no need to higher speed on this line.


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Old February 8th, 2014, 06:54 PM   #129
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Not really!!


There are sections that the portuguese pendolindo can travel at 220 Km/h, but there are sections like Gaia-Ovar that are very badly maintained and with level crossings on urban areas, and on that section, the trains travel on a slow speed line (SSL)!!!

Another reason is for that the actual Northern Line (Lisbon-Porto) need it to be upgraded to 4 tracks, and there are sections were that is impossible due to the bad portuguese urbanism history/laws.



According to the economical-financial studies at the time, i think that the HSL Lisbon-Porto would be the only one to give profit at the long run, the problem was that it was the more expensible (4 MM€)!!




Map in 2011 of the portuguese railroad network:







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Old February 8th, 2014, 11:49 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post

According to the economical-financial studies at the time, i think that the HSL Lisbon-Porto would be the only one to give profit at the long run, the problem was that it was the more expensible (4 MM€)!!


No 4 MM€ is too expensive for a link less than 200 km untill Fuentes de oñoro,
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Old April 27th, 2014, 07:28 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
It would be helpful a Sevilla-Faro HSL, but I don't think the Portuguese have any projects to build a line there..
At the time of big money a fifth line of HSL would be built between Évora & Faro, with the possibility of extension to Andalusia (Sevilla)!!!
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Old April 28th, 2014, 05:42 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
There will never be a HSL Porto-Madrid, not even on a long term!!
Someone spoke on the Spanish forum about a possible Madrid-Porto service via Vigo, once the whole Galicia HSL gets finished (by 2018, they say).
Anyway, the current state of things, it would still need some work (probably a chord between Redondela and Pontevedra), since the trains coming into Vigo from the HSL or from Corunna will end up at Vigo-Urzáiz station, while all trains on the Minho lines (Ourense via Ribadavia, and Porto via Valença and Viana do Castelo) will end up at Vigo-Guixar station.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
In a far, far future (at least not before 2020) there will be no HSL in Portugal!! If some day the portuguese goverment decides to implement that network, the first line to be made will be Lisbon-Madrid, the second Lisbon-Porto and the third Porto-Vigo!!
Well, in the case of Lisbon-Madrid, the main thing, the essential, is to build the missing section between Evora and Elvas, whatever the speed.
The rest is Spain´s task to build.

Given the fact that the speed on the current line between Evora and Lisbon is acceptable, and that in the not too distant future the HSL between Navalmoral de la Mata and Badajoz will be partially open, the construction of that missing link becomes more and more urgent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
The lines Aveiro-Salamanca and Évora-Faro-Huelva probably will never be made as HSL, particularly the Aveiro-Salamanca!!
Aveiro-Salamanca as a new line... I just don´t see it, rather an upgrade of the current line from Pampilhosa.

As for Faro-Huelva... that will simply never happen. Andalusia and the Algarve don´t have much relationship. There never was a rail bridge between Ayamonte and Vila Real de Santo António (and the road bridge wasn´t built till the 1990s!!), and the line between Ayamonte and Gibraleón (next to Huelva) was closed and dismantled in 1987, so that speaks by itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
One of the intentions is to complete the modernisation of the Beira Alta corridor linking Aveiro and Vilar Formoso on the Spanish border, that includes the instalation of bi-gauge beams, elimination of the constraints of the track in way to be possible freight trains of 750 meters and a northern direct link to the North Line in the Pampilhosa area!!
Including something around Vila Franca das Naves? There´s a serious bend there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
There are sections that the portuguese pendolindo can travel at 220 Km/h, but there are sections like Gaia-Ovar that are very badly maintained and with level crossings on urban areas, and on that section, the trains travel on a slow speed line (SSL)!!!
What´s the best travel time between Lisbon and Porto on the Alfa Pendular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
Another reason is for that the actual Northern Line (Lisbon-Porto) need it to be upgraded to 4 tracks, and there are sections were that is impossible due to the bad portuguese urbanism history/laws.
Is there any real need for that, are the current tracks that strained?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
At the time of big money a fifth line of HSL would be built between Évora & Faro, with the possibility of extension to Andalusia (Sevilla)!!!
Between Évora and Faro? Who´d travel on such line, me?
Why not extending the current upgraded line from Grândola to Faro?
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Old April 28th, 2014, 06:12 AM   #133
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error post, wrong thread.
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Old April 28th, 2014, 08:40 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Someone spoke on the Spanish forum about a possible Madrid-Porto service via Vigo, once the whole Galicia HSL gets finished (by 2018, they say).
Anyway, the current state of things, it would still need some work (probably a chord between Redondela and Pontevedra), since the trains coming into Vigo from the HSL or from Corunna will end up at Vigo-Urzáiz station, while all trains on the Minho lines (Ourense via Ribadavia, and Porto via Valença and Viana do Castelo) will end up at Vigo-Guixar station.
Isn't Redondela-Pontevedra stretch already finished as part of the currently ongoing upgrade of Santiago-Vigo line? All you'd need to do would be to build a connection somewhere near Redondela between the new line and the old.

Of course even better would be to find a way for trains from Portugal to reach Vigo-Urzaiz allowing through service via Vigo, but that's not going to be cheap. As I've said it before I think it was a mistake not to plan for it from the beginning.
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Old April 28th, 2014, 01:58 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
As for Faro-Huelva... that will simply never happen. Andalusia and the Algarve don´t have much relationship. There never was a rail bridge between Ayamonte and Vila Real de Santo António (and the road bridge wasn´t built till the 1990s!!), and the line between Ayamonte and Gibraleón (next to Huelva) was closed and dismantled in 1987, so that speaks by itself.
It something that makes me astonish, the fact that never was a rail bridge between between the towns Ayamonte & Vila Real de Santo António!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Including something around Vila Franca das Naves? There´s a serious bend there.
They intend to invest 900 M€ on the track between Pampilhosa and Vilar Formoso€!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
What´s the best travel time between Lisbon and Porto on the Alfa Pendular?
Porto-Campanhã»»Lisbon-Oriente it is 2h35!

Porto-Campanhã»»Lisbon-Santa Apolónia it is 2h43!


Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Is there any real need for that, are the current tracks that strained?
Yes they are!!

I saw a graphic with the actual capacity of the Northern Line by section, but i can`t find it now!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Between Évora and Faro? Who´d travel on such line, me?
Why not extending the current upgraded line from Grândola to Faro?
I also never understand that idea, but that was the initial project!!

Perhaps the idea was to get passengers from Évora!!
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Old April 28th, 2014, 01:59 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Isn't Redondela-Pontevedra stretch already finished as part of the currently ongoing upgrade of Santiago-Vigo line? All you'd need to do would be to build a connection somewhere near Redondela between the new line and the old.
Like I said, between Redondela and Pontevedra. And no, the section Redondela-Pontevedra is not yet finished.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Of course even better would be to find a way for trains from Portugal to reach Vigo-Urzaiz allowing through service via Vigo, but that's not going to be cheap. As I've said it before I think it was a mistake not to plan for it from the beginning.
It´s a mistake, yes. But we´re going off-topic, this is the thread about Portugal.
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Old August 14th, 2014, 04:47 PM   #137
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Portugese freight trains

Português: , Eu tenho uma pergunta: Eu estou aqui em Portugal em Vendas Novas e viver perto da estação, eu sou às vezes por horas na estação, mas não vejo nenhuma carga.Quem por acaso sabe se existem mercadorias provenientes locomotivas soltas ou?


Englisch: Portuguese: I have a question: I'm here in Portugal in Vendas Novas and live near the station, I'm sometimes for hours at the station, but I see no cargo .who know if there are freighttrains or locomotives that come true Vendas Novas?
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Old August 16th, 2014, 11:30 PM   #138
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www.bitblitz.net/refer
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Old December 18th, 2014, 03:26 PM   #139
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ATTENTION »» this project has been suspended/canceled for the moment, but a portuguese forumer posted the render of the projected Évora Station for the HSL between Lisbon and Madrid.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DiogoBaptista View Post
High-Speed Station Évora
New InterModal Station Évora

EDUARDO SOUTO DE MOURA, ADRIANO PIMENTA ARQUITETOS

Contest for the High-Speed Line, Section Poceirão/Caia on Lisbon – Madrid Axis, Portugal – 1st Place
with Eduardo Souto de Moura to the Consortium Elos (Soares Costa, Dragados, Lena, Edifer, Zagope)
to RAVE-high-speed Connections of Portugal



Concurso para a Linha de Alta Velocidade, Troço Poceirão - Caia no Eixo Lisboa – Madrid – 1º Lugar
com Eduardo Souto de Moura para o Consórcio Elos (Soares Costa, Dragados, BCP, Lena, Edifer, Zagope)
para RAVE – Ligações de Alta Velocidade de Portugal


In the past aqueducts crossing the landscape were built to bring water to cities. Nowadays, motorway viaducts pass over the contour lines. In the future these cities will be connected by high speed, being the Évora Station based on its own aqueduct.
Development of Évora Intermodal Station project occupying the empty spaces of the viaduct / aqueduct structure.
The project also developed the Image Study of the whole High-Speed System of Poceirão/Caia including the SET 's, bridges, viaducts, guards, overhead lines etc. ... in order to grant unity to the whole system.

_
“No passado construíram-se aquedutos atravessando a paisagem para levar água as cidades. No presente, viadutos de autoestradas passam por cima das curvas de nível. No futuro estas cidades estarão ligadas pela Alta Velocidade, sendo a Estação de Évora baseada no seu próprio aqueduto.” Eduardo Souto e Moura
Desenvolvimento do projeto da Estação Intermodal de Évora, ocupando o vazio do aqueduto/viaduto. O projeto englobou igualmente o desenvolvimento do estudo de imagem de todo o sistema de alta velocidade do Troço Poceirão / Caia onde se inclui as SET’s, pontes, viadutos, guardas, redes catenárias etc…de modo a conferir unidade à totalidade do sistema

2008 - 2012


http://www.adrianopimentaarquitetos....ation-portugal



































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Old December 18th, 2014, 06:07 PM   #140
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nice but too big for a small town as evora ??
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