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Old January 1st, 2015, 11:26 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
. That's useless. It would be quite expensive and Spain is already building the HSL to Badajoz and the HSL to Vigo.
So Madrid-Lisbon via Badajoz. And Madrid-Porto via vigo ..
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Old January 2nd, 2015, 12:04 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post

That's useless. It would be quite expensive and Spain is already building the HSL to Badajoz and the HSL to Vigo.
What will be the travel time between Vigo and Madrid when the HSL is completed??

Currently between Porto-Campanhã and Vigo-Guizar, the travel time is 2h15, with the future electrification the time may be cutted in 15 minutes, maybe! »» See here
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Old January 2nd, 2015, 03:42 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Battuta View Post
So Madrid-Lisbon via Badajoz. And Madrid-Porto via vigo ..
Yes, at the moment these are the most feasible options.

On the other hand, the moment Salamanca-Vilar Formoso will be electrified, things could dramatically change, but the Beira Alta line is not the best line on Earth.
Which is the travel time between Pampilhosa and Vilar Formoso, calling just at Mangualde and Guarda?
Edit: 3h03min best current time (calling at some other stations, I guess).
And which are the fastest travel times from Lisbon and Porto to Pampilhosa? Edit: Pampilhosa-Porto 1h, and Pampilhosa-Lisbon 2h04min.
Medina del Campo-Vilar Formoso takes somewhere around 2h20min. Medina del Campo-Madrid on the HSL takes some 40 min.

I thought the travel times from Pampilhosa to Porto and Lisbon were longer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
What will be the travel time between Vigo and Madrid when the HSL is completed??
Somewhere between 3h30min and 4h.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
Currently between Porto-Campanhã and Vigo-Guixar, the travel time is 2h15, with the future electrification the time may be cutted in 15 minutes, maybe! »» See here
So Madrid to Porto in somewhere between 5h45 and 6h15min could be feasible.
Not a very interesting travel time point to point, but still far better than what we have now, which is no direct train at all, and serving also Vigo, Viana do Castelo, Nine and maybe also Barcelos, as well as Pontevedra, Vilagarcía de Arousa, Ourense, Zamora and Segovia (not Santiago de Compostela though, as the train should take a by-pass right before Santiago that leads to Ourense).

That, given the case that a chord between the Vigo-Guixar to Guillarei and Vigo-Urzaiz to Santiago lines was built. Otherwise there's no way the train could be direct. This chord would be interesting not only for Madrid-Porto services, but also and in particular for potential Corunna-Lisbon services, which would have a stronger business case.

The other option would be to reverse at Vigo-Guixar and take the classic line to Ourense, with a slightly longer travel time, and the possibility of calling at Salvaterra (next to Monçâo) and/or Ribadavia, but leaving behind the possibility of the Pontevedra and Vilagarcía potential passengers (which are much bigger towns).

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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
I was thinking via Vigo and Santiago after Galicia HS line is finished, but now I checked and realised that I was too optimistic about getting from Porto to Santiago in 2.5 h. Particularly considering change of station in Vigo. It could be done with a car though, so in principle some modest further improvements might deliver that travel time.

Which route do you think will be the fastest five years from now?
Madrid-Porto via Vigo-Pontevedra. But that will mean the compulsory construction of the chord and also the electrification and upgrade of Nine-Valença-Guillarei, otherwise there's no point.
Edit: Madrid-Porto via Vilar Formoso IF Salamanca-Vilar Formoso is electrified would still take some 7 hours, Madrid-Lisbon around 8 hours.
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Old January 2nd, 2015, 04:23 AM   #164
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That's useless. It would be quite expensive and Spain is already building the HSL to Badajoz and the HSL to Vigo.

Through Badajoz to Lisbon is ok, but through Vigo to Porto i think there is possibility to do better

Via salamanca it seems it was a priority european coridor one time ..





@ pai nosso look the map above it seems there is no hilly regions between Salamanca and Coimbra if it will be calqued on the highway E80 traject..

Last edited by Battuta; January 2nd, 2015 at 04:27 AM. Reason: ortho
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Old January 2nd, 2015, 04:32 AM   #165
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That map is rather old. It's quite outdated in many cases.
And the fact that the Salamanca line is a priority for Brussels doesn't mean that the priority is given to passengers over freight.

You are not completely wrong, though, the thing is that the obvious Madrid to Porto route is the one via Vilar Formoso, but in that case, the only section on HSL would be Madrid to Medina del Campo, the rest on classic line. To fill the train, compulsory stops at Segovia, Salamanca, Ciudad Rodrigo, Guarda, Mangualde (for Viseu), Pampilhosa (reversal), and Aveiro. Any more stops would be playing too much with the travel time. Problem: Coimbra would be left out, although Pampilhosa is not far.

Once the HSL to Galicia is finished, the travel time will be shorter via Vigo, and serving a much more populated area: Ourense, Vilagarcía, Pontevedra, Vigo, Viana do Castelo, Barcelos, Nine (for Braga), Trofa (for Guimarães). Plus Zamora and Segovia.
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Old January 2nd, 2015, 12:48 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battuta View Post
Through Badajoz to Lisbon is ok, but through Vigo to Porto i think there is possibility to do better

Via salamanca it seems it was a priority european coridor one time ..





@ pai nosso look the map above it seems there is no hilly regions between Salamanca and Coimbra if it will be calqued on the highway E80 traject..
we are crazy , a hst to teruel , soria...
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Old January 2nd, 2015, 12:55 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
By car: 5h16

By train: 9h40 (having lucky) »» click here
But in car you must spend your active daytime to drive, while in a train you are sleeping, so you only spend one or two hours of your active daytime.
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Old January 3rd, 2015, 05:39 AM   #168
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But in car you must spend your active daytime to drive, while in a train you are sleeping, so you only spend one or two hours of your active daytime.
Night trains are dying in all of Europe.
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Old January 3rd, 2015, 07:24 AM   #169
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Night trains are dying in all of Europe.
Yep what i was thinking about the ones they were serving Paris are all dead Toute une epoque how we say ..

Better skeep in a Hotel next to a High speed rail station than in a train.
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Old January 3rd, 2015, 09:33 AM   #170
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Porto-Madrid would be around 4 h door to door by a plane, less if you happen to live close to the airport. Cheaper too than driving if you are not at least three people.
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Old January 3rd, 2015, 02:30 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post

Somewhere between 3h30min and 4h.
Thanks for answering!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Battuta View Post

Via salamanca it seems it was a priority european coridor one time ..

@ pai nosso look the map above it seems there is no hilly regions between Salamanca and Coimbra if it will be calqued on the highway E80 traject..

Portugal`s Orographichal Chart




Very hilly terrain that would imply building a lot of tunnels and viaducts for a HSL of 250 Km/h.
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Old January 3rd, 2015, 02:49 PM   #172
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Is there any possibility of lowering travel time between Porto and Vigo to 1.5 h (average of 100 km/h) or less without building an entirely new line?
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Old January 3rd, 2015, 08:00 PM   #173
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Is there any possibility of lowering travel time between Porto and Vigo to 1.5 h (average of 100 km/h) or less without building an entirely new line?
Electrifying the Minho Line would allow to lower the time travel and according to the news the electrification starts in 2017.
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Old January 3rd, 2015, 11:42 PM   #174
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Quote:
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Is there any possibility of lowering travel time between Porto and Vigo to 1.5 h (average of 100 km/h) or less without building an entirely new line?
No!!

Thanks to bad portuguese urban planement, the line has a lot of constraints, then there is the problem that in Portugal the trains have to pass on the stations at 80 Km/h or less (normally less), several bridges limitations, Barcelos, Viana do Castelo, Caminha, Valença do Minho, and limitations on the trains timetables.


Another bullet points given by user Oponopono:

track velocitys at km/h...

-São Bento to Campanhã: 60

-Campanhã to Ermesinde: 80

-Ermesinde to Nine: 100-120 with a short 140 (4km). For the pendolindos there two more little stretches at 140 between Lousado and Nine.

-Nine to Viana: 90-100 with two 110 and one small 120 (3km). Stations passes at 80

-Viana to Caminha: 120-140 and some parts at 80-100 and the 80 at the stations

-Caminha to Valença: 100 with the stations at 80.




P.S.: 1)there is a Portuguese former that uses the line between Lisbon and Barcelos that defines this line very well: From Porto to Nine » XXI century, from Nine to Valença do Minho »XIX century.

2)thread on the SSC-Portugal with photos of the Minho line »» Click here
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Old January 4th, 2015, 12:33 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
Thanks for answering!! Portugal`s Orographichal Chart Very hilly terrain that would imply building a lot of tunnels and viaducts for a HSL of 250 Km/h.
There is sole valeys where the highway 80 pass
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Old January 5th, 2015, 01:17 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battuta View Post
There is sole valeys where the highway 80 pass
Probably that was the place where the 4th HSL (Aveiro-Viseu-Guarda) was idealized!
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Old January 5th, 2015, 04:08 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
No!!

Thanks to bad portuguese urban planement, the line has a lot of constraints, then there is the problem that in Portugal the trains have to pass on the stations at 80 Km/h or less (normally less), several bridges limitations, Barcelos, Viana do Castelo, Caminha, Valença do Minho, and limitations on the trains timetables.


Another bullet points given by user Oponopono:

track velocitys at km/h...

-São Bento to Campanhã: 60

-Campanhã to Ermesinde: 80

-Ermesinde to Nine: 100-120 with a short 140 (4km). For the pendolindos there two more little stretches at 140 between Lousado and Nine.

-Nine to Viana: 90-100 with two 110 and one small 120 (3km). Stations passes at 80

-Viana to Caminha: 120-140 and some parts at 80-100 and the 80 at the stations

-Caminha to Valença: 100 with the stations at 80.




P.S.: 1)there is a Portuguese former that uses the line between Lisbon and Barcelos that defines this line very well: From Porto to Nine » XXI century, from Nine to Valença do Minho »XIX century.

2)thread on the SSC-Portugal with photos of the Minho line »» Click here

Every speed exceeding 80 km/h is good the bus average is usually estimed to 70 km/h on highway and not 100 km/h and the great advantage of the train is when it arrives to city suburbs no traffic jump (no atasco) so it becomes better than the bus.


One question about speed of trains :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battuta View Post


Did someone calculated some speed trains by Waze here ?

N.B. to add the speedometer in Waze it is possible to do as folows :

Touch the menu button menu icon and then the Settings wheel settings icon .
Click on Display settings.
Verify that Speedometer is ON.

more infos here


To take a screenchot of the displayed speed by Iphone click both on home and start buttons
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Old March 31st, 2015, 01:38 PM   #178
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ATTENTION »» this project has been suspended/canceled for the moment, but a portuguese forumer posted the render of the projected Campanhã Station for the HSL between Lisbon and Porto.


Campanhã Station - Porto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugoferreiraleite View Post

A estação de Campanhã seria toda ela remodelada.
Assim de cabeça ficaria como a gare do Oriente, com os acessos rodoviários no piso -2, conectados diretamente à VCI, AV no piso -1, e serviços atuais no piso 0.

Podes ver a foto partilhada pelo nosso colega Pelha, aqui do forum:

Legend:

Road acess »» Sub-level -2;

HSL »» Sub-level -1;

Conventional Railroad lines »» Level 0
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Old March 31st, 2015, 01:41 PM   #179
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ATTENTION »» this project has been suspended/canceled for the moment, but i found this information for the HSL between Lisbon and Madrid.


1-


2-


3-


4-

Source: http://ferropedia.es/wiki/LAV_Madrid...adura_-_Lisboa
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