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Old August 31st, 2012, 10:07 PM   #1981
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Which is ok when they put a reflective foil over it, like in other countries. So why don't they?
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Old August 31st, 2012, 10:30 PM   #1982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshsam View Post
The trucks forming long rows is an argument. Other than that I have no idea but I don't considder it a bad thing.

What about signs only on the left side of the road

It's up to the Walloon government to cut the trees down then if that part is so bad...
I actually like them as long as I can see one.

Find a missing detail



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Old August 31st, 2012, 10:38 PM   #1983
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One more.

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Old September 1st, 2012, 03:26 PM   #1984
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Several provinces do indeed have serious problems in terms of keeping the motorways maintained... I sometimes wonder why they even bother having a green median if they're unable to maintain it.
As for the signs on the left: I'm not certain whether it's actually cheaper to have an overhead sign instead of having the same sign on both sides. I don't have any information about the costs, but I can imagine that a gantry also has its price.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 03:53 PM   #1985
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Several provinces do indeed have serious problems in terms of keeping the motorways maintained... I sometimes wonder why they even bother having a green median if they're unable to maintain it.
Let me fix that: The green medain is there because they didn't maintain it. Once (in most places, but not all) it used the be just grass on the median and on the side of the highways...At one time (some 30 years ago) they stopped to cut the grass, grass became weeds and weeds became forest.

Example:

LONCIN ( A3/E40 X A15/E42 X A602/E25 )

image hosted on flickr


Exactly the same spot today: http://goo.gl/maps/9UmTn
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Old September 1st, 2012, 04:05 PM   #1986
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If you don't mind a point of English (I don't make a habit of doing this), you mean "stopped cutting the grass." "Stopped to cut the grass" would mean you were in the middle of doing something else when you noticed the grass needed to be cut, so you stopped what you were doing and cut the grass instead.



Now, since there are Belgians on line, what do you know about the issue discussed starting here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...9#post94628639 ? My impression was all directional signage to Belgian places needed to reflect the status of the place the sign was in. So Liège would be:

Liège in French-speaking areas without facilities
Liège/Luik in French-speaking areas with Dutch facilities or in Brussels
Liège/Lüttich in French-speaking areas with German facilities
Lüttich/Liège in German-speaking areas, which all have French facilities
Luik/Liège in Dutch-speaking areas with French facilities
Luik in the rest of Flanders.

Apparently it's not so?
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Old September 1st, 2012, 04:36 PM   #1987
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You are great Michael!
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Old September 1st, 2012, 04:44 PM   #1988
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Um, thanks....
[blushes]

I thought I was being embarrassingly nerdy, actually....
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Old September 1st, 2012, 04:52 PM   #1989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
If you don't mind a point of English (I don't make a habit of doing this), you mean "stopped cutting the grass." "Stopped to cut the grass" would mean you were in the middle of doing something else when you noticed the grass needed to be cut, so you stopped what you were doing and cut the grass instead.
Thanks, learned that again. Although I knew the two forms, I never realised they could have a slight differend meaning.



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Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Now, since there are Belgians on line, what do you know about the issue discussed starting here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...9#post94628639 ? My impression was all directional signage to Belgian places needed to reflect the status of the place the sign was in. So Liège would be:

Liège in French-speaking areas without facilities
Liège/Luik in French-speaking areas with Dutch facilities or in Brussels
Liège/Lüttich in French-speaking areas with German facilities
Lüttich/Liège in German-speaking areas, which all have French facilities
Luik/Liège in Dutch-speaking areas with French facilities
Luik in the rest of Flanders.

Apparently it's not so?

You know, I have no idea. It's also not something that keeps me awake at night . I know that in Belgium, by law, cities are signed in the language wich is spoken in the region the sign stands in. (But exeptions are to be found everywhere) That's why you have language swaps around Brussels on the R0. On one sign the city is named in Dutch, on the next sign in French...

I've seen names of German cities on Belgian roads signed in Dutch/French and German. Ofthen the German name first and then the Dutch name enclosed by brackets. e.g.: Köln (Keulen), Aachen (Aken). But then again towards Lille in France you have signs that put the Dutch name first like this: Rijsel (Lille)

As for signing of Belgian cities in other countries I have no idea what rules are overthere. If you drive on the Belgian A3/E40 (German 44) you have Liège signed in German, French and Dutch. (or at least it used to be couple of years ago)

I have no idea why on that Dutch sign in the link Köln is singed in German and Aachen in Dutch. The other names seem obvious as Liège is a French speaking city and there are no language disputes in The Netherlands.

Brussel/Bruxelles, hmmm, lets leave that in the middle. I see no use signing it in French on a Dutch motorway but some other Belgians might not think alike..


Lets conclude that it is al tarred with the same brush (is that correct? We say: één pot nat! )
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Old September 1st, 2012, 05:06 PM   #1990
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Wide medians are a huge thing to maintain. They can be equivalent to several Olympic stadiums depending on the distance covered. It may be cheaper to maintain them every 10 years instead of cutting them every year. In some countries it's no longer practical to build wide medians because of escalating land costs and the subsequent maintenance costs. Unless they built a left shoulder lane.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 05:13 PM   #1991
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@ Penn's Woods: The trains and language issue you discribed to on Le Soir probably goes about this:

For Example:
One of the most busy railway lines runs from Liège to Ostend through Brussels. You leave in Liége and all spoken (intercom) and written (screens in the train) language on the trains is French. Then you enter Flanders and from the moment you arrive in the town of Landen, everything spoken and written on the train becomes Dutch, leaving the persons who don't speak Dutch helpless. Ofthen in Landen trains are splitt up and re-arranged. So according to you destination you might have to change of carrage. Especially the trains drving from Brussels to Liège are ofthen splitt up in a section that travels to Hasselt and one that travels to Liège. So this might cause some trouble. Aloso the stop in Leuven, wich is a major railway hub for Flanders, might cause troubles. (There is also a faster railway line directly from Liège to Leuven so many French speaking people will have to switch trains overthere.)

Then when you enter Brussels all announcements become trilingual (French/Dutch/English) That's true for aal stations in Brussels and on this particluar line for about 3 stations ( Brussels North, Central and South). Afther you leave Brussels South you travel West towards Ostend and everything will be in Dutch again.... Ofthen to reach other cities along the coast line people will need to switch trains in Ghent. Since everything is in Dutch, French speaker wo can't understand a word Dutch are kinda helpless...

I don't think there is going to be a solution for the problem anytime soon though .
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Old September 1st, 2012, 06:20 PM   #1992
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That's the idea. Actually, the example was an Eupen-to-Ostend train.* Although they didn't go into issues like changing trains. There was a list, though, of stations in Brussels where Dutch is used first and stations in Brussels where French is used first.

It doesn't keep me up at night but the interplay of languages is fascinating to me for some reason. I know way more than is reasonable for an American about Quebec and Catalonia too. And I've never even been to Catalonia, although it's high on my list....

*Personal note: it was finding myself unexpectedly in Ostend and discovering that, between English and having studied German, I understood a lot that got me interested in the Dutch language. "Unexpectedly," because I got out of that Cologne-Brussels train at Midi/Zuid and discovered that there were not in fact any convenient hotels in the neighborhood. In fact, at least in 1985, that neighborhood didn't look at all inviting. So I decided to check my bag, sightsee in Brussels, and then go on to Ostend for the night - I was going to England the next day anyway so I'd have a head start in the morning.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 06:53 PM   #1993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post

*Personal note: it was finding myself unexpectedly in Ostend and discovering that, between English and having studied German, I understood a lot that got me interested in the Dutch language. "Unexpectedly," because I got out of that Cologne-Brussels train at Midi/Zuid and discovered that there were not in fact any convenient hotels in the neighborhood. In fact, at least in 1985, that neighborhood didn't look at all inviting. So I decided to check my bag, sightsee in Brussels, and then go on to Ostend for the night - I was going to England the next day anyway so I'd have a head start in the morning.
Brussels has changed a lot since 1985 and overall looks much better now. You have seen Brussels at it's worst when you visited it back in those days... The area around the South station still is a rough area but they are changing that as we speak. Unfortionally, the trainstation still looks like crap, only the TGV/Thalys/Eurostar platforms build in the 90ties look ok.

Overall trainstations in Brussels are the worst of the country. Many middle sized cities have modern trainstations or old ones where they looked afther over the years... Unfortionally they have better railwaystations in Seberia compaired to Brussels.

And yes Dutch/Flemish sounds very similar to English Since you have had German, You should be able to speak it in only a few months, though writing is a lot harder.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 07:00 PM   #1994
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I was using the sort of abbreviated Continent-wide timetable that was issued with the Eurailpass. Midi/Zuid was the only Brussels station it showed (I suppose there were more international connections there than at the others) so I assumed it was the main one. And since I'd just been in a couple of cities in Germany where it was easy to find a perfectly acceptable room either across the street from the train station or actually in it (Cologne), I assumed Brussels would be that way too!

What I haven't mentioned is it was August 15, so when I arrived in Ostend at 6 p.m. without a reservation, the woman at the tourist counter looked at me as if I was crazy and started working the phones, so I got to eavesdrop on a good bit of what I suppose was West-Vlaams. She found me a cheap, clean room upstairs from a cheap restaurant.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 07:13 PM   #1995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I was using the sort of abbreviated Continent-wide timetable that was issued with the Eurailpass. Midi/Zuid was the only Brussels station it showed (I suppose there were more international connections there than at the others) so I assumed it was the main one. And since I'd just been in a couple of cities in Germany where it was easy to find a perfectly acceptable room either across the street from the train station or actually in it (Cologne), I assumed Brussels would be that way too!
In that times the only decent station was Central, around Central there were/are lots of hotels. The problem was offcourse that South was allways the hub for international trains. Why they let that area delipitate that much I have no idea. So you surely wasn't in the wrong railwaystation. Brussels had a very bad reputation at the time and city flight to the suburbs was in full progress.

The area looks like this now but it's only the street against the station, the ones behind that still look a bit rough.

West entrance south: http://goo.gl/maps/wpxH5
West entrance North: http://goo.gl/maps/pl4W8
Eeast entrance: http://goo.gl/maps/GyW9o

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
What I haven't mentioned is it was August 15, so when I arrived in Ostend at 6 p.m. without a reservation, the woman at the tourist counter looked at me as if I was crazy and started working the phones, so I got to eavesdrop on a good bit of what I suppose was West-Vlaams. She found me a cheap, clean room upstairs from a cheap restaurant.
You got lucky! Specially if the weather as good. Every hotel and rental appartment is full at our coastline around that time To take a look back, maybe you will enjoy this thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...=flemish+coast From post 16 onward you'll see pics of Ostend.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 07:30 PM   #1996
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Driving from Brussels to Liege on the E40, first all the signs are in Dutch, so you head for Luik. Then you enter Walloon, so the signs turn French and you head tor Liege, until the road strays back into Flanders again for a few km, and the signs for Luik reappear. Once back in Walloon, it is all French again. I wonder which agency maintains the Flemish corridor, because road quality on the Flemish bit stays the same.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 09:22 PM   #1997
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I wonder which agency maintains the Flemish corridor, because road quality on the Flemish bit stays the same.
Agentschap Wegen en Verkeer Just like in the rest of Flanders. They maintain everything on Flemish N roads and Highways on Flemish territory... Every province has it's own department to. It's two stretches of about 3km and I agree the concrete is in a bad state. In between those two stretches there is 3km that belongs to Wallonia.

The quality of the road surface increases once you enter the Province of Liège but when you get at Loncin it almost makes you cry in despair...

ps: I tried to search the same agency for Wallonia but couldn't find it online. The only once I could find in the French one. PFF finding information for Wallonia is horrible and I thin Flanders is bad in information sites compaired to The Netherlands for instance...They have lots of work to do overthere.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 12:02 AM   #1998
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I've seen the Walloon road site. There are some nice maps on it. But it's been a while since I looked at it and I'm damned if I can remember the address....

EDIT: Voilà : http://routes.wallonie.be/
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 04:10 PM   #1999
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Also, am I right in thinking that they have used the same type of lamp for the past 40+ years, because over here in england we replace (most) of the motorway light fittings after about 10 years or so!
Most motorway lighting in the UK gets replaced long before it is life expired. Some lighting does not even survive for 10 years. Very wasteful.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 11:41 PM   #2000
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E25 from Neufchâteau to Liège, in 2 videos:



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