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Old June 10th, 2016, 06:44 PM   #2701
WallonianWaffleinWA
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Curious as to why green medians are dangerous. I love the highway landscape in Wallonia because of the vegetation. Would hate to see it go.
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Old June 10th, 2016, 07:16 PM   #2702
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Overgrown vegetation reduces the sightline, which is dangerous in curves.

Furthermore, it's extremely monotonous to see unkept greenery the entire trip on a motorway, you don't have any connection with the (cultural) landscape you're travelling through.
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Old June 10th, 2016, 07:22 PM   #2703
De Klauw
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On the contrary: unkept greenery looks very natural. And a great buffer.

Let's not fool ourselves, the elimination of green medians is only for budgetary reasons.
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Old June 10th, 2016, 07:26 PM   #2704
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Budgetary reasons, but also safety reasons. Performing maintenance on the median is very dangerous, so keeping that to a minimum isn't a bad idea.
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Old June 10th, 2016, 08:22 PM   #2705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by De Klauw View Post
On the contrary: unkept greenery looks very natural. And a great buffer.
It's not natural in an artificial setting, i.e. a strip of jungle through an open area. Germany in particular is very boring to drive through if the terrain is flat, hundreds of kilometers you see nothing but trees and bush, regardless if the terrain is open, forested or urban. Unkept bush doesn't have the same character as actual forests.
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Old June 10th, 2016, 09:01 PM   #2706
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Thanks for your replies. I never felt that bushes were reducing sightlines, at least at the height of a car. On the other hand, I love not being distracted by oncoming traffic headlights at night.
It's also a great noise buffer as pointed out.
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Old June 10th, 2016, 09:53 PM   #2707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glodenox View Post
Budgetary reasons, but also safety reasons. Performing maintenance on the median is very dangerous, so keeping that to a minimum isn't a bad idea.
So is replacing the lights. Nobody will argue that those are bad for safety.

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It's not natural in an artificial setting, i.e. a strip of jungle through an open area. Germany in particular is very boring to drive through if the terrain is flat, hundreds of kilometers you see nothing but trees and bush, regardless if the terrain is open, forested or urban. Unkept bush doesn't have the same character as actual forests.
You have a point, though that's only true in West Flanders. In the rest of Belgium is more forrest-like, in those areas a 'forrest hightway' is quite a natural landscape.

And replacing the green medians by simple concrete is simply a step in the wrong directions as greenery concerns. If it's necessary for extra capacity, that's a valid reason of course. But the Flemish government replaces them by concrete for no reason at all (other than being a cheapskate).

Last edited by De Klauw; June 10th, 2016 at 10:03 PM.
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Old June 10th, 2016, 10:03 PM   #2708
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... I fail to see the point you're trying to make? Of course lights need to be replaced. That's something that can't be changed (though LED lights help reducing that frequency). Replacing light bulbs takes a lot less time than mowing down grass/removing bushes, but it remains dangerous for those work crews as well.

For some reason that seems to be a common rhetoric here in Belgium: if we have a certain unwanted situation, it somehow doesn't matter that much if the situation gets even worse 'because it was already bad'. I never understood that way of thinking...
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Old June 10th, 2016, 10:10 PM   #2709
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My point is that 'saftey' is a farfetched argument to eliminate greenery .
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Old June 10th, 2016, 10:18 PM   #2710
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Hmm, I guess we'll differ in opinion there then. I've seen enough news reports of accidents by drivers slamming into such work crews to think that any way you can prevent or reduce any work on the highway is very welcome.

You could argue that the signalisation used isn't sufficient and that all lanes should have overhead signalisation to close off lanes and I'd fully agree with that, but that infrastructure simply isn't there now.
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Old June 10th, 2016, 11:42 PM   #2711
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The perfect time for works on left lanes of Belgian jungle motorways is when Red Devils will play their match. I love driving during the football championship. I so traffic free driving

So, just hire Dutch company and they will easily, fast and hassle free do their job. Even the Dutch can bring their moveable display gates which say which lane is closed or open for the traffic ...
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Old June 11th, 2016, 05:02 AM   #2712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by De Klauw View Post
My point is that 'saftey' is a farfetched argument to eliminate greenery .
But surely "cost savings" is even more farfetched
They will spend 1 000 000 Euro to install concrete for a distance of a few km
They could just cut the grass and bush growing there twice a year for several centuries for the same cost
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Old June 11th, 2016, 04:31 PM   #2713
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But they probably already had to replace those concrete barriers anyway, so the total cost isn't what we should be looking at. The comparison can only be made if you know how much the replacement of those medians would cost without eliminating the greenery.
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Old July 4th, 2016, 04:52 PM   #2714
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A601 Liège

A601 near Liège has been closed to all traffic since 29 December 2014. The reopening of the 5 kilometer long motorway has been postponed several times, and there are reports it may never reopen. They do not have money to resurface this motorway, which connects E40 with E313. The street lighting has been removed in 2015.







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Old July 4th, 2016, 07:07 PM   #2715
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^ That's crazy. I don't think resurfacing 5km of motorway will cost that much and if the only problem is the bad pavement, they can keep it open anyway with a low speed limit. It would be worse if the problem was a bridge or tunnel about to fall apart, that would be far more dangerous and expensive to fix.
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Old July 4th, 2016, 07:11 PM   #2716
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it's kind of a strange motorway, more like an extended exit ramp than a real road on its own. Maybe it shouldn't have been built...
but that they took away the lamps is amusing
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Old July 4th, 2016, 07:30 PM   #2717
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It was built in 1964 as part of the Antwerpen - Liège - Aachen motorway. It lost its importance to through traffic once E314 / A76 through the Netherlands opened as a shorter route in 1973.

It was already narrowed to one lane in each direction in November 2013 due to poor pavement. There was no maintenance on this stretch, they even removed the lamps from the lighting (presumably to re-use elsewhere?) It shows how broke the Walloon government is.
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Old July 4th, 2016, 11:00 PM   #2718
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There is still visibile Google Street View on the A601
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Old July 4th, 2016, 11:00 PM   #2719
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The bridges are also in a dire state. They have water damage with visible rebar. Infact many bridges across Belgium are in such bad shape (with rebar visibally rusting where concrete has eroded and crumbled), not only on motorways but local roads too. The bridge of the N80 in the city center of Hasselt are huge pieces of rebar visible on the columns and baring crossbeams. I'm always amazed it hasn't collapsed yet.

You know how they fix them? With mortar and a trowel It's as good as new for the next year, just fix them up with mortar again afther winter when it stops freezing.
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Old July 4th, 2016, 11:08 PM   #2720
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that's OK, in Quebec they rivet fences (wire-mesh) to stop the pieces falling off and hitting cars
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