daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 26th, 2016, 06:28 PM   #2821
joshsam
JR
 
joshsam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Sint-Truiden
Posts: 7,165
Likes (Received): 5408

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
Quite ridiculous to impose such measures on the safest roads of all, why don't they spend that money on actual dangrous roads: Outside of built-up areas and in built-up areas?
I think they will. At least they have placed a ton of camera's on N roads as well.
__________________
Ceci n'est pas un pays, een bananenrepubliek ja!
joshsam está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 27th, 2016, 03:43 AM   #2822
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,533
Likes (Received): 21239

I prefer strict speed enforcement with reasonable speed limits, which checks everyone (with cameras), than the American version of it (usually lower than justifiable speed limits which most people flaunt, but then get caught and harshly fined every now and then - or if they get in an accident).

It is annoying to be driving on a 1+1 expressway, at the posted speed limit, and then have a car tailgating you as its driver wants the car in front (me) to disrespect the posted limit and drive faster 'like most people do'. I absolutely hate this "it is illegal, but everybody does, so should you" situations when it comes to moving traffic or double parking.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!

Attus, mappero liked this post
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2017, 10:21 PM   #2823
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,595
Likes (Received): 19389

As of 1/1/17, the general non-urban speed limit in Flanders is now 70 km/h.

Although officially explained as 70 km/h already being the de-facto speed limit outside city limits with 90 km/h being the exception, practice shows a massive downgrading of the remaining 90 km/h sections to 70 km/h.

ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2017, 10:59 PM   #2824
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,406
Likes (Received): 2082

Only in Flanders? What's about Wallonia? How should one know which rule is valid, 70 or 90km/h?
__________________

Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2017, 11:02 PM   #2825
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,595
Likes (Received): 19389

70 km/h is the general speed limit in Flanders. Sections with a 90 km/h speed limit are indicated as such by signs.

Wallonia still has a 90 km/h general speed limit. Brussels too, perhaps, but they don't have many (if any?) roads outside city limits with a 90 km/h speed limit.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2017, 11:08 PM   #2826
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,406
Likes (Received): 2082

Yes, I know. Flanders has changed it because 75% were already limited to 70km/h but maintaining the signs is expensive, so they wanna remove 30,000 signs and just post the 90km/h exceptions.

However, how should I know if I'm in Flanders or Wallonia and what's the maximum speed?

Okay, my GPS automatically indicates that I'm close to a national border and displays the maximum speed table. I even have a "Location info" button and I can always request the actual speed table. However, I think Belgium is still one country or have I missed anything?
__________________

Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2017, 11:14 PM   #2827
Glodenox
Registered User
 
Glodenox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zemst, BE
Posts: 1,794
Likes (Received): 655

From what I've seen, signs as shown in the picture above have been put up at the internal borders as well. Though as far as I'm aware only in the direction into Flanders...
__________________
Copyright remains mine for all images I post that are hosted at tomputtemans.com, unless captioned otherwise.
Glodenox no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2017, 03:59 AM   #2828
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,374
Likes (Received): 747

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Yes, I know. Flanders has changed it because 75% were already limited to 70km/h but maintaining the signs is expensive, so they wanna remove 30,000 signs and just post the 90km/h exceptions.

However, how should I know if I'm in Flanders or Wallonia and what's the maximum speed?

Okay, my GPS automatically indicates that I'm close to a national border and displays the maximum speed table. I even have a "Location info" button and I can always request the actual speed table. However, I think Belgium is still one country or have I missed anything?
Upgrade GPS to type that indicates maximum speed on the road you actually are on at any given time
__________________
100 coups de fouet, si vous n'ętes pas morts de rire !
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2017, 02:24 PM   #2829
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,455
Likes (Received): 2185

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Yes, I know. Flanders has changed it because 75% were already limited to 70km/h but maintaining the signs is expensive, so they wanna remove 30,000 signs and just post the 90km/h exceptions.

However, how should I know if I'm in Flanders or Wallonia and what's the maximum speed?

Okay, my GPS automatically indicates that I'm close to a national border and displays the maximum speed table. I even have a "Location info" button and I can always request the actual speed table. However, I think Belgium is still one country or have I missed anything?
Aren't there border signs at any road that crosses the Flemish-Wallonian border?
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2017, 02:25 PM   #2830
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,455
Likes (Received): 2185

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
Upgrade GPS to type that indicates maximum speed on the road you actually are on at any given time
You aren't forced to use GPS every time you drive. Signage must be clear enough.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2017, 02:48 PM   #2831
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,533
Likes (Received): 21239

I'm adamantly opposed to sub-national entities establishing their own 'default traffic laws'.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2017, 03:11 PM   #2832
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,455
Likes (Received): 2185

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I'm adamantly opposed to sub-national entities establishing their own 'default traffic laws'.
Don't tell that in North America...
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2017, 03:58 PM   #2833
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,595
Likes (Received): 19389

Or Germany. Some states have a 120 km/h speed limit, others have 130 km/h. But those are clearly posted.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2017, 05:28 PM   #2834
Thermo
Registered User
 
Thermo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Antwerp
Posts: 4,749
Likes (Received): 4188

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I'm adamantly opposed to sub-national entities establishing their own 'default traffic laws'.
It's called federalism. You should look it up.
Thermo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2017, 07:08 PM   #2835
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,406
Likes (Received): 2082

Germany does NOT have different traffic laws and I don't know any European country having different traffic laws. German road authorities can implement federal laws differently. However, the default speed limits (no limit / 100 / 50) are identical. Exceptions are signposted (lower speed limit than default limit). There are more road authorities than states. For instance, the state of Baden-Württemberg has four general road authorities belonging to the "Regierungsbezirke" which seem to implement the laws differently.

I don't think that the Belgian way of having different default traffic laws per region is legal...
__________________

Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)

Suburbanist liked this post
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2017, 08:20 PM   #2836
joshsam
JR
 
joshsam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Sint-Truiden
Posts: 7,165
Likes (Received): 5408

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post

I don't think that the Belgian way of having different default traffic laws per region is legal...
The regions are responsible for all speed limits on Regional roads, Hence all N-roads and local routes. So they have to power to change any speed limit on all roads that are not classified as highways.

And even on highway regulation Flanders has found loopholes to change speed limits under certain circumstances, like with the smog alarm, wich is only implemented in Flanders.
--------------------------------

On the same discussion: Regions are also responsible for traffic safety on all roads. Hence Wallonia's green coloured bike lanes on crossings (the few you come across) and Flander's red coloured bike lanes on crossings or dangerous bike lanes (like close to a road)

Wallonia:
https://www.google.be/maps/@50.69588...7i13312!8i6656

Flanders:
https://www.google.be/maps/@50.83259...7i13312!8i6656
__________________
Ceci n'est pas un pays, een bananenrepubliek ja!

Last edited by joshsam; January 3rd, 2017 at 08:39 PM.
joshsam está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2017, 10:13 PM   #2837
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,406
Likes (Received): 2082

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshsam View Post
The regions are responsible for all speed limits on Regional roads, Hence all N-roads and local routes. So they have to power to change any speed limit on all roads that are not classified as highways.
It's identical in Germany. Any road authority has the power to change speed limits but they DON'T have the power to change the default (=unsigned) limit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshsam View Post
And even on highway regulation Flanders has found loopholes to change speed limits under certain circumstances, like with the smog alarm, wich is only implemented in Flanders.
Of course, that's the normal situation. But the law is made by the federal government.

Enviromental strategies (Euro x norm car ban, truck ban, speed limit) are issued by the city, town or even village. I only know smog alarm from Stuttgart. No other municipality has issued anything like that in Germany and I think it's the same in whole European Union.

Again, my only concern is, how should anyone know what's the speed limit when it's not signed? I don't think that anyone can expect that everyone knows if s/he is in Wallonia or Flanders...
__________________

Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2017, 10:24 PM   #2838
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,595
Likes (Received): 19389

Belgium has allocated nearly all power to the regional governments in respect to roads. The federal government does not fund roads like in Germany, the regions fund it. Hence, there are no federal or national roads, from an ownership view, Belgium only has regional roads (gewestwegen). Even motorways are operated like a regional road, though not typically called that.

The federal government of mobility has only limited powers in respect to traffic, these are driver's license and hours of service regulations, the traffic code and motor vehicle registration (and I also think there are federal laws for traffic offenses).

But road funding, road operations and road development is entirely up to the three regions. And - apparently - they can also change the general speed limit.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2017, 11:44 PM   #2839
joshsam
JR
 
joshsam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Sint-Truiden
Posts: 7,165
Likes (Received): 5408

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post

Again, my only concern is, how should anyone know what's the speed limit when it's not signed? I don't think that anyone can expect that everyone knows if s/he is in Wallonia or Flanders...

Like any good driver just watch the plates. When you enter Belgium the language of the sign telling you what to drive might help. If you enter Belgium to Flanders, the sign will also say 70 if you enter trough Wallonia the sign will say 90. If you cross region borders there will be signs. There are allready giant signs at region borders stating in wich Region you are and also in wich Province you are. If you haven't got any clue because you missed a giant signage on the side of the road, you can always resort to the names of the towns an cities. French and German names are in Wallonia.

Here you have all 3 of them at the Belgian border:



some other variant of Region and Province indicating
__________________
Ceci n'est pas un pays, een bananenrepubliek ja!
joshsam está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 4th, 2017, 01:24 AM   #2840
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,374
Likes (Received): 747

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermo View Post
It's called federalism. You should look it up.
But default limits in such small areas make no sense.
Why not adopt the USA-style option of just putting all the signs up every time.
The European use of the "end all limits" sign but you still have a speed limit always struck me as nonsense.
__________________
100 coups de fouet, si vous n'ętes pas morts de rire !
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autoroute, autoselweg, belgië, belgium, flanders, snelweg, vlaanderen, wallon, wallonia

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium