[B] Belgian Motorways • Autoroutes de Belgique • Belgische Autosnelwegen - Page 17

deranged · January 26th, 2009, 09:17 AM

The sign, coupled with the poorly-designed road markings, are misleading and dangerous. One possible solution would be to disallow overtaking with the use of dual unbroken lines and designate the lane as left turn only (using road markings) for a short distance either side of the intersection. Also, the sign could look something like this (but in French):

(Edit: You're right Glodenox, a distance would be much better. Don't know why I forgot about that.

)

Glodenox · January 26th, 2009, 10:18 PM

There's no real reason to put "ahead" beneath the sign according to me. It should be pretty obvious that's the situation ahead. Instead - and you'd evade the whole language division problem in Belgium right away - I'd just put the distance at which that situation starts.

Another solution would be more or less the same as deranged mentioned, but it would actually fit in the road markings we're already having right now: just a full white line (with some interruptions for that road to the left perhaps) and arrows showing in which lane to drive for each direction. In this case, the "middle" lane we're seeing would have the arrow to the left and the right lane would have an arrow forwards and one to the right combined (as we've got a lot on our roads elsewhere).

Also, looking at Google Earth, I see that the middle lane can basically be used by both directions when a driver feels like it. According to me that's way too dangerous. Some poles and markings that fence off the parts that may be used to turn left would've been much safer and easier to understand.

Greetings,
Glodenox

***ChrisZwolle*** · January 26th, 2009, 10:24 PM

New dynamic signs along E313

Thermo · January 26th, 2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle

14. They should renew these touristic signs, nearly all of them look like this, not really inviting.
image hosted on flickr

They're already being renewed. These are the new ones (signs in full color):

More: http://portfolio.sudpresse.be/main.php?g2_itemId=218655

Majestic · January 26th, 2009, 11:26 PM

Beautiful signs, that's what might make you detour to just see what's posted.

Timon91 · January 27th, 2009, 08:37 AM

Exactly, much better then the old ones

***ChrisZwolle*** · January 27th, 2009, 08:41 AM

Only, one problem. These signs have to gonna get huge to see them properly. And they may distract too much then. I haven't seen other full-color photo-style touristic signs... Most of them just have a sketch on them with 2 colors (brown and white or so).

Timon91 · January 27th, 2009, 12:52 PM

You mean the sketches like you see on those signs in the Netherlands and Germany?

By the way, you won't see the signs anyway, as they will probably hidden in the bushes

Glodenox · January 29th, 2009, 02:03 PM

Haven't seen any of those new signs yet, but I certainly wouldn't mind

Sure, they may distract a bit, but they're meant to grab the attention as well, so there's a thin line between "too distracting" and "not distracting enough".

Greetings,
Glodenox

***ChrisZwolle*** · January 29th, 2009, 02:25 PM

R3 Charleroi Beltway

Charleroi is among the most decayed cities of western Europe. But that's what makes it interesting. A lot of faded, old infrastructure and signs. This photojourney goes along the R3, the outer belt of Charleroi.

More can be found on my Flickr page

First: the Eastside of R3

1. To good Belgian standards, the first picture features a sign in the trees.
image hosted on flickr

2. That mountain is in fact a terril.
image hosted on flickr

3. Marcinelle exit.
image hosted on flickr

4. Marcinelle is also the name of a gigantic factory in the area.
image hosted on flickr

5. Bridge
image hosted on flickr

6. N5 exit. I was surprised to see Reims signed here, it's a long trip through country roads.
image hosted on flickr

7. Some of Charleroi's suburbs.
image hosted on flickr

8. There are a few tunnels in the R3.
image hosted on flickr

9. That's Châtelet.
image hosted on flickr

10. see?
image hosted on flickr

11. Charleroi is set in a hilly region.
image hosted on flickr

12. Châtelet exit.
image hosted on flickr

13. N90 exit.
image hosted on flickr

14. closer look.
image hosted on flickr

15. Ransart exit.
image hosted on flickr

16. E42 interchange.
image hosted on flickr

Second: The westside of R3.

17. Short tunnel.
image hosted on flickr

18. Marcinelle exits.
image hosted on flickr

19. Long names here.
image hosted on flickr

20. Interchange with the A503, a short motorway in Charleroi.
image hosted on flickr

21. Beaumont exit.
image hosted on flickr

22. R3 milemarker.
image hosted on flickr

23. Another Marcinelle exit.
image hosted on flickr

24. Forchies exit.
image hosted on flickr

25. Typical Belgian motorway view: trees and nothing but them.
image hosted on flickr

26. Railway crossing.
image hosted on flickr

27. Courcelles exit.
image hosted on flickr

28. N583.
image hosted on flickr

29. E42 interchange.
image hosted on flickr

30. Road numbers are faded.
image hosted on flickr

31. Odd green sign.
image hosted on flickr

32. Neat overhead.
image hosted on flickr

33. Tunnel.
image hosted on flickr

Timon91 · January 29th, 2009, 02:33 PM

I thought that Charleroi had a one-way ringroad. Which Belgian city does have that one-way ringroad?

***ChrisZwolle*** · January 29th, 2009, 02:36 PM

Charleroi has two ringroads. The outer ringroad is the R3 and goes typically 5 to 8 kilometers outside the city center.

The R9 is the inner belt and is one way, 3 - 4 lanes and elevated throughout most of it's route. It's typically 500 to 1000 meters away from the city center. I would like to compare it to Rochester, NY inner belt.

firmanhadi · January 29th, 2009, 02:45 PM

Goodness gracious! Somebody trim those trees! I'm sure Belgian government can afford to do that?

Thermo · January 29th, 2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firmanhadi

Goodness gracious! Somebody trim those trees! I'm sure Belgian government can afford to do that?

Road maintenance is done by the federated states (Flanders, Wallonia and Brussels). So in the Charleroi case, it's Wallonia who has to pay for the roads...

And yeah, they have no money

poller1 · January 30th, 2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thermo

Road maintenance is done by the federated states (Flanders, Wallonia and Brussels). So in the Charleroi case, it's Wallonia who has to pay for the roads...

And yeah, they have no money

Also in Flanders those trees are a problem....... but indeed, Flanders has no money either.

***ChrisZwolle*** · January 30th, 2009, 02:53 PM

If you are interested in the decay of Wallonian cities, check this photothread

Timon91 · January 30th, 2009, 05:08 PM

I'm sure it will get better with those cities. Once.

Morsue · January 30th, 2009, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thermo

Road maintenance is done by the federated states (Flanders, Wallonia and Brussels). So in the Charleroi case, it's Wallonia who has to pay for the roads...

And yeah, they have no money

I didn't know Flanders had an exclave (except for Baarle-Nassau). What's that red thingy near Maastricht?

***ChrisZwolle*** · January 30th, 2009, 10:55 PM

That's called the "Voerstreek" of "Fourons" in French.

Note that Wallonia also has a small exclave in the extreme west.

Morsue · January 31st, 2009, 12:30 AM

Oooh, geographical anomalies! Kind of like Abcoude

January 26th, 2009, 09:17 AM	#321
deranged okay then Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,532 Likes (Received): 121	The sign, coupled with the poorly-designed road markings, are misleading and dangerous. One possible solution would be to disallow overtaking with the use of dual unbroken lines and designate the lane as left turn only (using road markings) for a short distance either side of the intersection. Also, the sign could look something like this (but in French): (Edit: You're right Glodenox, a distance would be much better. Don't know why I forgot about that. ) Last edited by deranged; January 27th, 2009 at 07:41 AM.

January 26th, 2009, 10:24 PM	#323
*ChrisZwolle* Road user Join Date: May 2006 Location: Zwolle Posts: 28,764 Likes (Received): 447	New dynamic signs along E313 __________________ Visit the Highways & Autobahns section! my clinched highways • highway pictures @ Flickr and Youtube

January 27th, 2009, 08:37 AM	#326
Timon91 Error Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: just outside Germany Posts: 5,780 Likes (Received): 0	Exactly, much better then the old ones __________________ My Flickr account. Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.

January 27th, 2009, 08:41 AM	#327
*ChrisZwolle* Road user Join Date: May 2006 Location: Zwolle Posts: 28,764 Likes (Received): 447	Only, one problem. These signs have to gonna get huge to see them properly. And they may distract too much then. I haven't seen other full-color photo-style touristic signs... Most of them just have a sketch on them with 2 colors (brown and white or so). __________________ Visit the Highways & Autobahns section! my clinched highways • highway pictures @ Flickr and Youtube

January 27th, 2009, 12:52 PM	#328
Timon91 Error Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: just outside Germany Posts: 5,780 Likes (Received): 0	You mean the sketches like you see on those signs in the Netherlands and Germany? By the way, you won't see the signs anyway, as they will probably hidden in the bushes __________________ My Flickr account. Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.

January 26th, 2009, 10:18 PM	#322
Glodenox Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Zemst, BE Posts: 799	There's no real reason to put "ahead" beneath the sign according to me. It should be pretty obvious that's the situation ahead. Instead - and you'd evade the whole language division problem in Belgium right away - I'd just put the distance at which that situation starts. Another solution would be more or less the same as deranged mentioned, but it would actually fit in the road markings we're already having right now: just a full white line (with some interruptions for that road to the left perhaps) and arrows showing in which lane to drive for each direction. In this case, the "middle" lane we're seeing would have the arrow to the left and the right lane would have an arrow forwards and one to the right combined (as we've got a lot on our roads elsewhere). Also, looking at Google Earth, I see that the middle lane can basically be used by both directions when a driver feels like it. According to me that's way too dangerous. Some poles and markings that fence off the parts that may be used to turn left would've been much safer and easier to understand. Greetings, Glodenox

January 26th, 2009, 11:26 PM	#325
Majestic AnnoDominiHighDefinition Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: POZnan* (PL) Posts: 746 Likes (Received): 0	Beautiful signs, that's what might make you detour to just see what's posted.

January 29th, 2009, 02:03 PM	#329
Glodenox Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Zemst, BE Posts: 799	Haven't seen any of those new signs yet, but I certainly wouldn't mind Sure, they may distract a bit, but they're meant to grab the attention as well, so there's a thin line between "too distracting" and "not distracting enough". Greetings, Glodenox

January 29th, 2009, 02:25 PM	#330
*ChrisZwolle* Road user Join Date: May 2006 Location: Zwolle Posts: 28,764 Likes (Received): 447	R3 Charleroi Beltway Charleroi is among the most decayed cities of western Europe. But that's what makes it interesting. A lot of faded, old infrastructure and signs. This photojourney goes along the R3, the outer belt of Charleroi. More can be found on my Flickr page First: the Eastside of R3 1. To good Belgian standards, the first picture features a sign in the trees. image hosted on flickr 2. That mountain is in fact a terril. image hosted on flickr 3. Marcinelle exit. image hosted on flickr 4. Marcinelle is also the name of a gigantic factory in the area. image hosted on flickr 5. Bridge image hosted on flickr 6. N5 exit. I was surprised to see Reims signed here, it's a long trip through country roads. image hosted on flickr 7. Some of Charleroi's suburbs. image hosted on flickr 8. There are a few tunnels in the R3. image hosted on flickr 9. That's Châtelet. image hosted on flickr 10. see? image hosted on flickr 11. Charleroi is set in a hilly region. image hosted on flickr 12. Châtelet exit. image hosted on flickr 13. N90 exit. image hosted on flickr 14. closer look. image hosted on flickr 15. Ransart exit. image hosted on flickr 16. E42 interchange. image hosted on flickr Second: The westside of R3. 17. Short tunnel. image hosted on flickr 18. Marcinelle exits. image hosted on flickr 19. Long names here. image hosted on flickr 20. Interchange with the A503, a short motorway in Charleroi. image hosted on flickr 21. Beaumont exit. image hosted on flickr 22. R3 milemarker. image hosted on flickr 23. Another Marcinelle exit. image hosted on flickr 24. Forchies exit. image hosted on flickr 25. Typical Belgian motorway view: trees and nothing but them. image hosted on flickr 26. Railway crossing. image hosted on flickr 27. Courcelles exit. image hosted on flickr 28. N583. image hosted on flickr 29. E42 interchange. image hosted on flickr 30. Road numbers are faded. image hosted on flickr 31. Odd green sign. image hosted on flickr 32. Neat overhead. image hosted on flickr 33. Tunnel. image hosted on flickr __________________ Visit the Highways & Autobahns section! my clinched highways • highway pictures @ Flickr and Youtube

January 29th, 2009, 02:33 PM	#331
Timon91 Error Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: just outside Germany Posts: 5,780 Likes (Received): 0	I thought that Charleroi had a one-way ringroad. Which Belgian city does have that one-way ringroad? __________________ My Flickr account. Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.

January 29th, 2009, 02:36 PM	#332
*ChrisZwolle* Road user Join Date: May 2006 Location: Zwolle Posts: 28,764 Likes (Received): 447	Charleroi has two ringroads. The outer ringroad is the R3 and goes typically 5 to 8 kilometers outside the city center. The R9 is the inner belt and is one way, 3 - 4 lanes and elevated throughout most of it's route. It's typically 500 to 1000 meters away from the city center. I would like to compare it to Rochester, NY inner belt. __________________ Visit the Highways & Autobahns section! my clinched highways • highway pictures @ Flickr and Youtube

January 29th, 2009, 02:45 PM	#333
firmanhadi Urban Addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New York, Jakarta, Chicago, now... Singapore Posts: 362 Likes (Received): 0	Goodness gracious! Somebody trim those trees! I'm sure Belgian government can afford to do that? __________________ Help us complete the Jakarta OpenStreetMap by mapping your neighborhood! I prefer drawing to talking. Drawing is faster, and leaves less room for lies -- Le Corbusier Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

January 30th, 2009, 02:53 PM	#336
*ChrisZwolle* Road user Join Date: May 2006 Location: Zwolle Posts: 28,764 Likes (Received): 447	If you are interested in the decay of Wallonian cities, check this photothread __________________ Visit the Highways & Autobahns section! my clinched highways • highway pictures @ Flickr and Youtube

January 30th, 2009, 05:08 PM	#337
Timon91 Error Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: just outside Germany Posts: 5,780 Likes (Received): 0	I'm sure it will get better with those cities. Once. __________________ My Flickr account. Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.

January 30th, 2009, 10:55 PM	#339
*ChrisZwolle* Road user Join Date: May 2006 Location: Zwolle Posts: 28,764 Likes (Received): 447	That's called the "Voerstreek" of "Fourons" in French. Note that Wallonia also has a small exclave in the extreme west. __________________ Visit the Highways & Autobahns section! my clinched highways • highway pictures @ Flickr and Youtube

January 31st, 2009, 12:30 AM	#340
Morsue Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Stockholm Posts: 1,206 Likes (Received): 2	Oooh, geographical anomalies! Kind of like Abcoude

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