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Old March 15th, 2011, 11:48 PM   #1021
piotr71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The E40 (A18) in that area (Jabbeke - French border) was the last major motorway construction project in Belgium, completed between 1989 and 1997.
Let me just add that this motorway is unlit on almost all its length.
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Old March 15th, 2011, 11:52 PM   #1022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
Let me just add that this motorway is unlit on almost all its length.
It also lacked a physical median (just grass), but I believe they recently put up some embankments in the median to reduce collisions.
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Old March 16th, 2011, 12:09 AM   #1023
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Carriageways are seperated in this way:



and this:




Also (I think you meant this) in such a way, which looks pretty new:



By the way. Do you know (forumers) whether road N97 by-passing town Dinant has full motorway specification just not carrying motorway sign, or it is
a bit lower standard road (no shoulders, tighter bends or so). I have very detailed map of Northern Belgium which clearly distinguish this section of N97 from regular 2x2 roads such as N4 which I have driven on.
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Old March 16th, 2011, 12:13 AM   #1024
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N4 is just a 2x2 road, but does not have complete grade-separation.
N97 can be compared with a droga ekspresowa or voie expresse with full grade-separation and is a de-facto motorway.

Both roads have a 120 km/h speed limit unless otherwise signposted.
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Old March 16th, 2011, 12:38 AM   #1025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
N4 is just a 2x2 road, but does not have complete grade-separation.
.
As far as I remember it consist of several 1x4 sections, as well. It also has very short slip roads and goes through some smaller town's centres, so my map showing N97 in different way does its job very well.

After your comment I compared it to a map of France where I found more roads of this kind(one of them I experienced with my car), so it must be in fact motorway with no motorway's sign.
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Old March 16th, 2011, 12:46 AM   #1026
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Is it like the N80 between Sint-Truiden and Hasselt?
That is an 2x2 express way, it's fully seperated with shoulders but with sometimes same level crossings, and exits at other crossings, some parts are 90km/h and others are 120km/h.
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Old March 16th, 2011, 12:50 AM   #1027
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No, it's more like N25 between Louvain-la-Neuve and Nivelles or N74 around Hechtel/Overpelt.

It's virtually impossible to distinguish them from full-blown motorways.
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Old March 16th, 2011, 12:54 AM   #1028
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N80 on my map looks like N4.

N97 is exactly like N74 from Rosterheide nr Hechtel-Eksel (some 20 kilometres North of Hasselt) to Dutch border.
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Old March 16th, 2011, 12:57 AM   #1029
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I see, I've already driven on the N74, the motorway like part starting at Hechtel ending in Neerpelt. Well I guess nobody really knows how to call those. for me those are just expressways and not full highways...
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Old March 16th, 2011, 12:58 AM   #1030
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N74 was once planned as A24. Unfortunately the Dutch government wasn't very cooperative with building A69 from Eindhoven to the Belgian border.

That would've made a nice north-south motorway from Eindhoven to Hasselt (and Liège). Especially because there is quite a lot of industry around Hasselt/Genk and Dutch N69 is severely overloaded (30.000 vehicles per day through the shopping street of Valkenswaard).
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Old March 16th, 2011, 01:05 AM   #1031
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Yes I know, the N74 is a very busy road when nearing towards Hasselt also. People I know coming from that direction are always late due to traffic jams.
It alos needs much more divertions around town centers.
Also the N80 was planned to have a full connection on the E40 motorway but Walloon government didn't really liked that id ,leaving Sint-Truiden without a proper connection on the E40 towards Brussels. Because of that the N3 towards Tiennen is overloaded constantly. I admire people still living next to that road....
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Old March 16th, 2011, 01:18 AM   #1032
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There is also an example of "Grand travaux inutiles" around Sint-Truiden, the n718 was meant to be an Expressway connecting the n716 and the n79. Only 3.5 km of it got completed, making it the shortest National road of Belgium. I leave nearby that road and it's 2x2 fully divided with shoulders, there is no speed limit, traffic poles where set up but no lightbulps where placed. The poles are rusted because they are never repainted and you can drive with your bike on it because it is as busy as a dirt road...
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Old March 16th, 2011, 01:38 AM   #1033
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The whole plan for Sint-Truiden used to be this:
I know it's a rough drawing but these where (and still are) the problems:

-Construction of the N80 towards the E40 motorway, creating a much needed connection for growth.
-Divertion of traffic from the local roads between the N716 and N79
-Divertion of traffic, keeping it out of the city center, by connecting the N716 with the N3 and further on towards the N80.

Dreams did not come true...

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Old March 16th, 2011, 01:12 PM   #1034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
Has this tram ever been going to France? Looking at the map and the pictures I would rather say so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Looks like the tram line never got west of De Panne.
These tracks are railroad tracks not tramtracks. The tramline is built at metre gauge, this is standard (1,435 mm) gauge...
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Old March 16th, 2011, 04:20 PM   #1035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshsam View Post
There is also an example of "Grand travaux inutiles" around Sint-Truiden, the n718 was meant to be an Expressway connecting the n716 and the n79. Only 3.5 km of it got completed, making it the shortest National road of Belgium. I leave nearby that road and it's 2x2 fully divided with shoulders, there is no speed limit, traffic poles where set up but no lightbulps where placed. The poles are rusted because they are never repainted and you can drive with your bike on it because it is as busy as a dirt road...
Are you allowed to say "Grands travaux inutiles" around Sint-Truiden?
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Old March 16th, 2011, 09:00 PM   #1036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyView View Post
I guess Wimpie has never driven anything outside Belgium, otherwise he wouldn't write such moronic statements.
I've driven in; France, The Netherlands, Germany, Luxemburg, Austria, Italy, The United States of America (New York, New Jersey and Califoronia), Spain, Tunesia, Turkey, Greece (Corfou), Switzerland & Hong Kong.
To my opinion I've got enough expierence abroad to be able to claim that on an international scale Belgium is really not doing that bad, especially not in Flanders. Ofcourse, compared to country's like the Netherlands where they have roads in a freakishly good condition, nothing looks ok.

I btw have a picture of the coastal tram in the 60's (visible in this picture is also the old road marking system which was inspired by that of the US).

image hosted on flickr
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Old March 18th, 2011, 02:19 AM   #1037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Are you allowed to say "Grands travaux inutiles" around Sint-Truiden?
There is a Dutch term ("Grote nutteloze werken"), but the term GTI (which stands for "Grands travaux inutiles") has pretty much become standard, so why wouldn't we use it? The term itself is based on a book written by RTBF journalist Jean-Claude Defossé in 1990 "Le Petit Guide des Grands Travaux Inutiles", which was followed up with a TV series that got attention in the whole country (extremely rare today).

More information:
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grote_nutteloze_werken

Greetings,
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Old March 19th, 2011, 07:57 PM   #1038
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I happen to have uploaded some fragments of the show on Youtube a couple of years ago.

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Old March 19th, 2011, 10:06 PM   #1039
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Funny video.
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Old March 20th, 2011, 02:22 PM   #1040
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The documentary was made in the early 90's if I'm correct. Most of these mistakes have been eiter demolished, rebuilt or used for other purposes.
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