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Old August 25th, 2011, 11:40 AM   #1361
Wimpie
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Good video's, nice work

Some more Flemish Belgian traffic signs

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Old August 25th, 2011, 12:03 PM   #1362
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I can never understand these Belgian road signs. Apart from the fact that it's a mess when it comes to language, these signs often lead you to nowhere. You follow them until you get to a point where you have to guess where you're going. Also they place them really low, so if a vehicle or a person is obstructing them, you may find yourself on an entire different route. Thank God for GPS!

E-routes... let's not go there. Another ****-up, but we've already established that...
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Old August 25th, 2011, 12:12 PM   #1363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
(..) Also they place them really low,(..)
Like this?:









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Old August 25th, 2011, 12:15 PM   #1364
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Exactly that!

Last edited by Road_UK; August 25th, 2011 at 12:29 PM.
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Old August 25th, 2011, 05:53 PM   #1365
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haha I think they place one sign, then they do not want to spend money and just place the new sign underneath the other one.

ROUTE DEGRADEE, it's funny how they place signs for that instead of fixing the damn thing. I've never seen such signs where I live here...
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Old August 25th, 2011, 06:02 PM   #1366
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You've never seen signs with 'slecht wegdek'? On the A67/E34 in Holland, right on the border there is a Dutch warning triangle, warning drivers for the bad roadsurface in Belgium.
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Old August 25th, 2011, 06:36 PM   #1367
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I know one:


However it is not related to any major road.
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Old August 25th, 2011, 07:08 PM   #1368
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That's a country lane, I let you off. It's just such a shame to find so many bad quality N-roads and some motorways for a western European country like Belgium.
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Old August 25th, 2011, 07:10 PM   #1369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
You've never seen signs with 'slecht wegdek'? On the A67/E34 in Holland, right on the border there is a Dutch warning triangle, warning drivers for the bad roadsurface in Belgium.
Never seen them inside Belgium myself. It's a Dutch plate right?

ps: I'm not discussing the road conditions but the existence of the sings. But like piotr showed they do exist but I don't think they are uniformal...

Edit:
Regarding the bad road conditions, I think Daviedoff vids show that things are on the better hand compaired to some years ago. I know we have some bad roads, some regions more than others, but sompairing everything to the Netherlands is unfair. I've drivin in Germany quite some times and road conditions on some highways where equally bad.
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Last edited by joshsam; August 25th, 2011 at 07:26 PM.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 03:47 AM   #1370
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I only know one stretch where they had a sign saying road in bad condition, which was fixed 6 months later... Same for those low signs and direction signs that you say lead to nowhere. I therefore just have to assume you're not giving us a chance to improve our situation and are stuck in your first image of our country. Or just generalising the situation in one region to another. The only low sign I know of is placed that way since otherwise it'd be blocking the view for police to look at what's going on inside the lobby of a bank building.

Here are some images I made a couple of days ago at the E19 (yeah, that's how we call it, quit trying to change us...) near Vilvoorde: http://maps.google.be/?ll=50.914655,4.457906&z=17

The current exit is being transformed due to changes to the road further on. On the left, there's Brucargo, the cargo area next to Brussels Airport. To ease traffic problems, trucks will be able to drive directly from the motorway into the cargo area without having to cross any intersections. In the middle of the road, you can see how well they've progressed at building the rail line in the median, as well as the tunnel that goes underground towards the Brussels Airport station.


The previous picture was taken from this bridge. It's a cyclists-only bridge that was put there along with all the other works that were being carried out in the area.


If I should have to say which part of the road that I find the least safe around where I live, it'll be this one:

Even though it was refurbished a couple of years ago, it never crossed the planners' minds that there are cars driving 90 km/h right next to cyclists after those 3 cones. It isn't until well after the bend to the right that the speed is lowered to 70 km/h - which is still way too fast next such a cyclist lane. In my opinion, the barrier should be between the cyclist path and the road, instead of to the right of both. One plus point however is that for people going in one direction that the road goes, there's a separate cycling path a couple of metres before where I took that picture without any cars.

Greetings,
Glodenox
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Last edited by Glodenox; August 26th, 2011 at 11:06 PM.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 09:01 PM   #1371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glodenox View Post
I therefore just have to assume you're not giving us a chance to improve our situation and are stuck in your first image of our country.
True, the roads improved significantly in Belgium since about 2004 / 2005. Most motorways are now in good condition. There are still some works to be done though. I think it's also partially due to the huge contrasts between the Netherlands / Luxembourg and Belgium, especially before about 2004. NL and LUX have about the best maintained road networks in Europe, while Belgium is below average, it's not that bad compared to France. The major problem right now is traffic safety. If current trends continue, Belgium will rank in the top 3 unsafest countries in Europe. It's already significantly behind western Europe, and Eastern Europe is slashing road fatalities by the tens of percents, and will soon perform better than Belgium.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 11:05 PM   #1372
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I've often wondered what could be the cause for this. My current assumption is that it has to do with the attitude of "I have my driving license, so I'm a great driver".
The past few months I've been noticing way more tailgating than before (might be that I just didn't notice it before) and more and more people seem to be thinking they've got priority while they don't.

But the biggest reason in my opinion is that the police seem to be doing almost only stationary checks. They check your speed somewhere and check whether all licenses are fine at that point. They don't seem to be driving around with an unmarked car looking at how people are behaving in traffic. If they would, they wouldn't be bored for a minute.

Two weeks ago, I went to a friend by car. On that route, I pass 3 traffic lights. In total, I've seen 4 people pass through a red light: a cyclist, a pedestrian, a motorcycle and a car. The pedestrian was inside a city centre and was cautious enough to check for upcoming cars, so I guess that wasn't the end of the world. But all the others simply couldn't wait for the light to turn green and the cyclist and car endangered themselves/other people through their action

Greetings,
Glodenox
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Old August 26th, 2011, 11:05 PM   #1373
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How come road fatalities is still high in BE?
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Old August 27th, 2011, 12:28 AM   #1374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
I can never understand these Belgian road signs. Apart from the fact that it's a mess when it comes to language, these signs often lead you to nowhere. You follow them until you get to a point where you have to guess where you're going. Also they place them really low, so if a vehicle or a person is obstructing them, you may find yourself on an entire different route. Thank God for GPS!

E-routes... let's not go there. Another ****-up, but we've already established that...


This seems like a very biased opinion. If there's one thing that can be said of of our signage system it is that it takes you where you need to be. The problems you mentioned are problems of the past or problems of current day Wallonia. Besides you post a comment like this beneath a picture of new signs still claiming it is a current day situation?




Last edited by Wimpie; August 27th, 2011 at 12:33 AM.
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Old August 27th, 2011, 12:33 AM   #1375
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How come road fatalities is still high in BE?
Weekend fatalities tend to be quite high, sometimes over 10 deaths per weekend. Another issue are severe (truck) crashes on motorways, due to a lack of an accurate and real-time traffic jam warning system. Germany also has this problem. It's very expensive to operate such a system (motorway traffic management) like the Netherlands. Nearly all Flemish motorways and some Walloon motorways need it, basically any busy truck or commuter route. That leaves only the quieter motorways in the Ardennes where no MTM is needed.
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Old August 27th, 2011, 05:10 PM   #1376
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The problems you mentioned are problems of the past or problems of current day Wallonia.
Wallonia isn't Belgium?
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Old August 27th, 2011, 06:58 PM   #1377
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I'm starting to grow tired of the "Well, in Wallonia they're still doing worse than us" mentality. Sure, they're a bit more lax in terms of traffic safety than we are, they value sensibilisation with clear messages higher than retribution through fines, but we're not that much better ourselves. Our politicians prefer to point at worse situations instead of trying to learn from where it is better.

Wallonia is part of Belgium, so is Flanders, so is Brussels. I don't think Wimpie was trying to imply that they're not part of Belgium, but trying to say that the situation there is, in general, slightly worse than in Flanders. In both regions, there are still bad roads, or roads with bad signage, etc. Quite a few responsibilities have been transferred to the regions and in certain parts of all the regions it has had a very positive effect. But for a lot of regions it also had zero effect at all.

Greetings,
Glodenox
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Old August 27th, 2011, 07:08 PM   #1378
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Well said.
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Old August 28th, 2011, 02:39 PM   #1379
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...so true! vl+bxl+wa=be

anyway, some pics from my trip to Mons (E42/E19/A7 at St. Ghislain, note the tremendous truck traffic coming from France/GB!)






Last edited by lambersart2005; August 28th, 2011 at 03:08 PM.
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Old August 28th, 2011, 03:05 PM   #1380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glodenox View Post




Two weeks ago, I went to a friend by car. On that route, I pass 3 traffic lights. In total, I've seen 4 people pass through a red light: a cyclist, a pedestrian, a motorcycle and a car. The pedestrian was inside a city centre and was cautious enough to check for upcoming cars, so I guess that wasn't the end of the world. But all the others simply couldn't wait for the light to turn green and the cyclist and car endangered themselves/other people through their action

Greetings,
Glodenox
In Portugal and the UK cyclists and pedestrains never stop at red lights.


Anyway signs the equivalent of Route Dégradée are common elsewhere too
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autoroute, autoselweg, belgië, belgium, flanders, snelweg, vlaanderen, wallon, wallonia

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