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Old July 25th, 2008, 08:19 PM   #141
Qaabus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madao View Post
i think it's because of the tax

We Dutch pay alot of tax that money goes for a part to infrastructure there is where the answer is i think...
Taxes are way higher in Belgium. The highest in the world after Sweden and Denmark.
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Old July 25th, 2008, 10:18 PM   #142
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Belgium is spending a hell lot of money on PT.
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Old July 25th, 2008, 10:32 PM   #143
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De Lijn, a public transit company in Belgium, has only 16% of own income from tickets, the rest is subsidized. They have too many lines which have only a ridership of 15 - 25%, and even some lines which have less than one percent ridership. They are said to overestimate their ridership with 100 million travellers per year, in order to recieve more funding.

Flanders recieve almost as much funding for transit as the entire Netherlands (900 million vs 1.15 billion) (excluding trains) That's 2.1 times the funding per inhabitant compared to the Netherlands.
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Old July 25th, 2008, 10:44 PM   #144
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So only 300 million use PT in flanders instead of 400 million per year?
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Old July 25th, 2008, 11:03 PM   #145
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Well, De Lijn does not run all Public Transit, only buses and some tramways.

Aside, from the transit issues,

The problem is that Belgium does not have had a proper spatial planning, and now some rural areas are almost completely urbanized, since all roads are lined with houses. The population density in Flanders is even higher than New Jersey.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 01:29 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MateoW View Post
I'm annoyed about Belgian signs, they don't show the motorway number, only E numbers
In Belgium the E-numbers are used for the motorways. We don't need the A-signs and nobody uses them.
Is there any particular reason why you prefer to use A-numbers instead of E-numbers?

The E- numbers should be used in every European country, not the national numbers.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 02:36 PM   #147
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E-numbers make no sense in national signage. First of all, international traffic is minimal compared to domestic traffic. Second, you can't really tell how important a motorway is by it's number the number 313 would be secondary or even a local motorway in Germany, but in Belgium it's a very important transit axe, while the E42 south of Verviers is usually very empty.

I wonder how many people actually use the E-signage when travelling internationally. They're not named in traffic info, sometimes sparsely (DE) or not (UK) signed, and sometimes make a strange routing (like E25 in NL).
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Old July 29th, 2008, 10:39 AM   #148
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I doesn't matter what you use. It is different in every country anyway. If you travel in Belgium what do you care if a motorway is called E19 or A12 of M4 or C55 or whatever. In Belgium nobody uses the A-numbers. On the Radio they will say there is a trafic jam on the E40, A numbers are never mentioned. I see NO reason what so ever why it should be better to use an A-number. You're just looking for a stick to hit the dog...

At the countrary. I find it very anoying that in most countries the E numbers are not used. Or only as a secondary sign. If you travel trough 5 or 6 countries, it's a different numbering after every border. I don't see the advantage in that.

Last edited by hix; July 29th, 2008 at 01:05 PM.
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Old July 29th, 2008, 11:02 AM   #149
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I was in Belgium day before yesterday, I made a video of the E314 NL -> Houthalen, though it was taped on a 160px format, so useless The pavement of the E314 was generally okay, but noisy. I like the new ecoduct near Kikbeek.

The signed destinations in the Netherlands differ from the Belgium signaged destinations, in the Netherlands, they sign Antwerpen on the A76, but in Belgium it's Brussel (makes more sense because the E314 heads for Brussels). Maybe the Dutch don't want the through traffic to Antwerpen on the A2/A67.
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Old July 29th, 2008, 05:12 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by hix View Post
In Belgium nobody uses the A-numbers.
Unless the highway does not have an E-number.

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Old July 29th, 2008, 06:38 PM   #151
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That seems very unhandy to me. Signing your motorways with 2 different letters?
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Old July 29th, 2008, 07:10 PM   #152
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Lots of countries do that. Denmark also has motorways that aren't E-roads, however, they don't have a prefix in that case. Spain has tons of prefixes.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 09:11 AM   #153
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But the confusing matter in Belgium is that even when a highway as an E-number, sometimes also (or only) the A-number is used:


A8 = E429

Belgium also uses E-numbers even when you are not actually on that road (but the road is leading to an E-road),


Here on the R0: To the right leads directly to the E411 (A4), that is correct. But the E19 and E40 are *not* ahead, but they are a lot of kilometres away.


The R0 again: The E40 is correct here in both directions. But the E19 still isn't.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 09:54 AM   #154
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The R0 again: The E40 is correct here in both directions. But the E19 still isn't.
It is clearly stated that you are on the R0 (Ringway 0) and that straight ahead leads to E19. I fail to see why you think this is not correct?
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Old July 30th, 2008, 11:29 AM   #155
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How do you know if the R0 or E19 or E40 is the actual road number? However, I believe that in case of the R0, it overlaps with E19 and E40.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 11:48 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
How do you know if the R0 or E19 or E40 is the actual road number?
Because it is very clearly marked on top of the sign.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 12:03 PM   #157
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Yeah, but why wouldn't it be the bottom numbers, like in nearly all other countries? In Belgium, anything is possible. You have to think of signage in a way that you have not driven there before. Signage is meant for those unknown to the area, not the everyday commuter.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 12:20 PM   #158
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Well the bottom numbers are correct too cause if you go straight ahead you will eventually be on the E19 or E40. If you come from Liège f.e. and you need to go to Oostende you have to follow the E40, which goed around Brussels via the RO and basically is still the same road.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 12:31 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Yeah, but why wouldn't it be the bottom numbers, like in nearly all other countries? In Belgium, anything is possible. You have to think of signage in a way that you have not driven there before. Signage is meant for those unknown to the area, not the everyday commuter.
When you drive from Antwerp to Amsterdam, it's impossible to find any sign to Amsterdam ones you are in the Netherlands. For peopole who wish to follow the European roadsigns they will find that in Holland they can hardly be found. Your idea that national signs are easyer to follow is quite absurd. On the Belgian Motorways it is very easy to find you way if you come from abroad. Destinations are clearly marked and the E-road numbers are easy to follow. In Brussels if you come from Antwerp and you want to go to Gent, all you have to do is to follow the E40 numbers or/and direction Gent.
In Holland at the contrary ones you cross the border, you will see NO sign to Amsterdam and the international E numbers are invisible. You think that is easy? I disagree!

Last edited by hix; July 30th, 2008 at 12:54 PM.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 12:56 PM   #160
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Kind of sad that you try to prove me wrong by attacking the Dutch signage, while I didn't compared it to it once.

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On the Belgian Motorways it is very easy to find you way if you come from abroad.
Yeah, they sign names like Anvers or Gand which are usually not displayed at maps. The really issue are all those translations, like Luik, Bergen, Courtrai, Bruges, Gand, Anvers, Maestricht, Aix-la-Chapelle etc. One sign it says Anvers, the next says Antwerp, how are non-Belgium travellers suppose to know those are the same?

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; July 30th, 2008 at 01:03 PM.
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