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Old December 28th, 2011, 04:56 PM   #1661
Thermo
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Originally Posted by Karnoit View Post
That scrapyard is invaded by thousands of tourists from your country every holiday though. And unlike Road_Uk, nothing obliges them to come here.
Wallonia has the most beautiful landscapes in the whole benelux and has plenty of really beautiful villages. Yes, there are some 'bad' parts like Charleroi and the area around Liège (due to old industry), but you can find similar scenes in the UK for example.


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Anyway, federalisation does not date back from yesterday and road infrastructures are regional matters for a long time now. Each regions is responsible for the mental image foreigners have about the road networks. We all know why Wallonia roads are in bad shape (no money). If Flanders has a bad image according to foreigners driving through (and it seems so, although Road_Uk overeacts), then the one to blame is the flemish governent itself and not Wallonia.
Nobody is blaming Wallonia for bad roads in Flanders. But it has to be said: Belgian roads are worse than the ones in any neighbouring country. BUT finally the politicians in both Flanders and Wallonia have committed to renovate the whole network in the coming years. The budget for roads in Flanders has been tripled, and will stay at this level in the future.

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Originally Posted by lambersart2005 View Post
what is wrong with all you belgium-haters? comments like the one above don't seem to be really constructive criticism... please, grow up and start to be a bit more open-minded!
Haters gonna hate...
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Old December 28th, 2011, 07:05 PM   #1662
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130km/h doesn't seem like a great idea on most of our roads. There's just too many exits on most of them. There may be a select few cases where this would be acceptable (E34, E17 perhaps, E403 on some parts, and about a quarter of the motorways in Wallonia since the exits are much more separated - though the pavement quality must be up to standards for that as well).
If you drive on our highway, you will see that probably >50% drive faster than 120 km/h.

http://www.9lives.be/forum/mobilitei...utostrade.html

If you look at those results of that poll, you will see that a maximum speelimit of 130km/h is not a bad idea.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 07:18 PM   #1663
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It is not a bad idea at all, especially considering the fact that our first freeways were designed to be driven on without a speed limit. Most mid-class cars in the 60's didn't go much faster than 140 km/h anyway.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 07:19 PM   #1664
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Originally Posted by Lebanese_Almaghrebia View Post
If you drive on our highway, you will see that probably >50% drive faster than 120 km/h.

http://www.9lives.be/forum/mobilitei...utostrade.html

If you look at those results of that poll, you will see that a maximum speelimit of 130km/h is not a bad idea.
And from the moment that people get used to driving 130 km/h, they'll start driving 140 km/h. We shouldn't raise the limits just because people drive faster than allowed, but limits should be raised when it is sensibly possible - and that is currently not really the case on many stretches.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 07:22 PM   #1665
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Nonsense: since the max speed in The Netherlands was raised on a few stretches as a test, the max speed on those stretches went up with only 3 km from approx. 113 km/h to approx. 116 km/h.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 07:33 PM   #1666
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The average speed, you mean? I assume that's considering free-flowing traffic, but that would be lowered anyway due to the truck traffic. Couldn't it be that your data simply based on the speed of all vehicles, instead of just the cars that are actually allowed to drive that fast?

I have no data to support this, but I always assumed that the speed people will drive on average is mainly affected by two things: when fines are given and up until which point we feel safe. The fines are a given, the safety feeling is probably around 150 km/h, judging from the average speeds driven on German highways (again, no actual data there, just my general experience from twice driving there). So I'm assuming that when the limit is raised, people will raise their speed as well, until they hit one of the two limits.

Also, I'm not certain how long it'll take for people to get used to 130 km/h. It's been introduced for a while now in the Netherlands, but I'm not sure whether it has been long enough for the general public. Sure, the commuters have gotten used to it, but you only need a few cars that go slower to slow down the rest of the traffic.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 08:27 PM   #1667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glodenox View Post
The average speed, you mean? I assume that's considering free-flowing traffic, but that would be lowered anyway due to the truck traffic. Couldn't it be that your data simply based on the speed of all vehicles, instead of just the cars that are actually allowed to drive that fast?
The data he means includes only passenger cars. So no trucks and buses. The V85 and average speed only went up by 3 or 4 km/h on most of the test sections.



For instance the A32. It was posted at 120 km/h. The average speed of passenger cars was 116.2 km/h. When they increased the speed limit to 130 km/h, the average speed went to 118.4 km/h, an increase of only 2.3 km/h.

So there is no such thing that if you increase the limit by 10 km/h, traffic will go 10 km/h faster accordingly.
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Old December 29th, 2011, 12:27 AM   #1668
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Weird, but good. The only question that remains then is whether or not this will also be the case in our country. But I do hope that research like this will be used to increase the speed on some sections, because you might wrongly be thinking that I'm against raising the limit from my previous posts
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Old December 29th, 2011, 03:03 AM   #1669
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Nah because...:

1: It's my European right to travel through scrapyards if I want to.

2: My boss pays me to get to my destination on time.

3: Your roads are not tax-free. A lot of it is funded by European money, which is also my money.
Dude, why do you constantly bash British and Belgian motorways?
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Old December 29th, 2011, 03:08 AM   #1670
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I love Belgium. I always thought of it as the best of France, the Netherlands and the UK in a blender. It's one of the friendliest countries I've been to on the continent and one of the less hostile towards English people.

I liked what I saw of your motorways too. I hope to visit again.
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Old December 29th, 2011, 11:30 AM   #1671
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An American Professor in the social (or human) sciences once wrote an essay on that.

What all Belgians have in common is a love for the "good life", which they find in their excellent food and drink, comfortable housing, reliable medical and social services, highly developed traffic and communications infrastructure. Belgians are not the type wanting to impress other people with their achievements, or to convince others of their righteousness. They tend to be rather reserved or introverted in their first contacts with other people, but are sincerely warm and friendly once you get to know them better. They are happy when they can enjoy a safe and comfortable life, together with their family and friends, and they put a high value on privacy. They have a clear aversion towards moralizing, towards telling other people how they should or should not behave (an attitude for which they critize their neighbours in Holland), and they take "live and and let live" as the basis for their philosophy. R. Hill, in a book on different European characters, describes the Belgians as "open-minded opportunists", noting their pragmatical attitude.
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Old December 29th, 2011, 11:59 AM   #1672
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A lot of things are true indeed...
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Old December 29th, 2011, 12:10 PM   #1673
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Completely irrelevant to roads. What is this, the Belgian forum for social sciences?
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Old December 29th, 2011, 12:38 PM   #1674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimpie View Post

They have a clear aversion towards moralizing, towards telling other people how they should or should not behave (an attitude for which they critize their neighbours in Holland),
==>

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Completely irrelevant to roads. What is this, the Belgian forum for social sciences?
Point proven

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Old December 29th, 2011, 12:42 PM   #1675
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That's right, the Dutch don't like offtopic
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Old December 29th, 2011, 01:06 PM   #1676
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So, we are lucky that it ain´t just a dutch forum!
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Old December 29th, 2011, 01:09 PM   #1677
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Actually, I don't feel that it's completely off-topic since the way people think in a country has a decent effect on how they drive, including on highways But I do think we best just stick to talking about the roads themselves, since that's much more interesting
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Old December 29th, 2011, 03:46 PM   #1678
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I think you're right, the differences between Belgium and the Netherlands are a good example of that. We might be bonded by language and history but generally we have a different vision on life and "how things need to be done".

The Dutch would say: "A problem exists from the moment it poses itself until it is solved".
The Belgians would way: "A problem exists from the moment it starts to get annoying".

If we pull that back to roads and general infrastructure, well, it explains everything :p






Last edited by Wimpie; December 29th, 2011 at 03:56 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2011, 04:15 PM   #1679
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You mean that this underpass (seems new) is too narrow? Maybe it's just an agricultural passage with no need to be upgraded in the future.

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Those speed bumps exist in many urban areas in Europe, however I think they're annoying and pretty useless.

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Thypical road sign mess common in roadworks expecially in Italy. Consequences: nobody pay attention to signs in roadworks area, even the few times they're useful and well-placed.
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Old December 29th, 2011, 04:40 PM   #1680
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I don't think that is the speed bump but the position of the road before and then during the bump
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