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Old September 11th, 2009, 02:16 AM   #2301
HAWC1506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAG View Post
As promised, here are some examples of concrete road surface from Germany and Poland.
The brushing is done normally as in the Polish example (i.e. at 90° to traffic low) but there are many places where the brush lines are as in Fig. 2:


Autostrada A4 in Poland near Wrocław



Autobahn A2 in Germany near Magdeburg


.
Thanks for the pictures! The texture looks very similar to the ones in Washington State, although I'm quite positive that in Washington, the brushings are deeper, so it's less smooth. But it's good to see what Germany does. Thanks!

Now, when it comes to water runoff, does the Autobahn have a crowned carriageway or is it single sloped?
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Old September 18th, 2009, 11:36 AM   #2302
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Help with routing my trip

Hi, all,

I used to regularly read SSC, and posted a few times, but I confess it's been a while since I've visited. But reading SSC got me yearning for a driving trip to Europe (last one was in 2004), and now it's finally happening! I'd really appreciate any recommendations for roads to take or avoid. I'm posting in the Germany thread since that's where I'll spend most of my time. Here's my itinerary:

Arrive in Brussels on Sunday 20 Sept. (Why Brussels? The only city I could book using frequent flyer miles.)
Brussels to Frankfurt (for the IAA) on Monday the 21st.
Frankfurt to Wolfsburg (for VW Autostadt) on Thursday the 24th.
Wolfsburg to Amsterdam on Sunday the 27th (depart late afternoon).
Amsterdam back to Brussels on Tuesday the 29th.

I'd appreciate any recommendations for routes that are scenic, uncongested, or otherwise interesting (the road itself, impressive bridges, interesting signage, etc.). Also, any routes I should avoid due to construction, congestion, etc. (Chris, you have me worried with the posts about congested Netherlands roads!) I'll probably want to travel mostly by motorways, but would like to hear of any recommended alternatives.

I'd like to travel through as many countries as possible, so on the way to Frankfurt I was thinking of going via Luxembourg and the French A4 (I've wanted for a long time to drive on a French autoroute!), then German A6 and A63 to Frankfurt. I might also take a day trip from Brussels to France on Wednesday the 30th (any suggestions?) before I leave for home on 1 Oct.

Also, any tricks for taking good dashboard videos? I got a video camera recently and tried some, but the videos turn out pretty shaky, even though I have the camera attached (with velcro straps and foam rubber) to a bean-bag type device (to keep the camera from sliding around). It may just be that our pavement here is so much worse than in Europe ...

Thanks for your help,
Ken
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Old September 18th, 2009, 11:56 AM   #2303
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Hey Ken,

I think Germany isn't the problem. There might be some traffic around the IAA in Frankfurt, but that's hard to avoid. I would avoid driving from Amsterdam to Brussels during rush hour, outside rush hours, you will be fine. The main problem in NL is also that traffic jams double when it rains. However, traffic congestion is somewhat less now because of the recession.
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Old September 18th, 2009, 11:54 PM   #2304
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FRA - WOB:

The A5 between Frankfurt and Hattenbach is often congested, especially at a long construction side east of Gießen. Try the A66 to Fulda (only a small part near Fulda is missing) and then A7 to Hannover.
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Old September 21st, 2009, 02:22 PM   #2305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAG View Post
Some examples of fine German engineering spotted on the A2 (D) and A4 (PL) last week:



Not quite sure what this one was, probably a vintage Mercedes

.
Nope, it's a Citroen Traction, one of the most innovative car of its time.
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 05:14 AM   #2306
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Hey ChrisZwolle, do you have a favorite city in Germany out of curiosity?
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 09:33 AM   #2307
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Not really one city, but I find the Rhine-Ruhr conurbation very interesting. A 10 million metropolis just two hours of driving away!
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 04:56 PM   #2308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
...
Now, when it comes to water runoff, does the Autobahn have a crowned carriageway or is it single sloped?
In case of heavy rain this kind of surface is very very dangerous.
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Old September 26th, 2009, 03:15 PM   #2309
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Are there photos of the A57?
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Old September 27th, 2009, 04:48 AM   #2310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Colbert View Post
In case of heavy rain this kind of surface is very very dangerous.
The single sloped surface?
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Old September 27th, 2009, 12:23 PM   #2311
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He probably means concrete in general. It's drainage capacity is really low compared to asphalt and porous asphalt in particular. But then again, if it's pouring rain really hard, you should slow down. Just like those idiots who think they can drive 150+ km/h in winterly circumstances because they have winter tires.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 09:29 AM   #2312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
He probably means concrete in general. It's drainage capacity is really low compared to asphalt and porous asphalt in particular. But then again, if it's pouring rain really hard, you should slow down. Just like those idiots who think they can drive 150+ km/h in winterly circumstances because they have winter tires.
Oh definitely. Washington doesn't seem to use porous asphalt a whole lot though, except on some test sections for quieter asphalt. Most of the pavement I've driven on are dense-graded (non-porous). I think two things make it very dangerous:

1. Water does not drain through the pavement, decreasing traction.

2. The water that isn't drained stays on the surface, making pavement markings hard to see due to light reflections from streetlights and cars.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 02:44 PM   #2313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
Now, when it comes to water runoff, does the Autobahn have a crowned carriageway or is it single sloped?
I never saw crowned carriageway in Germany, but probably because they have mostly 2+2 or 3+3 lanes. The only 4+4 autobahn I drove up to now is single sloped too (if I remember correctly), A9 north of München.
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Old September 29th, 2009, 11:36 AM   #2314
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On my daily commute I use an Autobahn with asphalt surface (A9) as well as one with concrete (A92).
According to my experience I wouldn't say that there is any significant difference between those two regarding safety in wet conditions (or any other conditions).

Also comfort wise I don't think there is much difference between these pavements. Asphalt can be a bit smoother but just by a small margin.

In my opionion the choice of the pavement is far less important than the overall quality of construction and maintenance. I'd prefer a good conctete pavement over a run down asphalt pavement any time.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 10:43 PM   #2315
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A30 Bad Bentheim - Bad Oeynhausen

A Bad to Bad route! This set covers the entire A30 eastbound from the Dutch border to Kreuz Bad Oeynhausen, 130 kilometers to the east.

Click here to view the full set (169 pics)

route:
[IMG]http://i34.************/2mobmo0.png[/IMG]

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Old October 4th, 2009, 11:11 PM   #2316
berlinwroclaw
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Thanks for the impressive photo collection.
BTW: Have you seen the radar control with flash light between Dreieck Löhne and another one in the town Bad Oeynhausen?
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Have a safe trip!
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Old October 4th, 2009, 11:18 PM   #2317
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Yes I did

I encountered a few speed cameras during my trip (I also went to Tecklenburg and Steinfurt), but I'm not too afraid for a fine, my speedometer has a deviation of about 5 km/h, plus correction, so you can drive about 10 - 12 over the limit before getting a fine. And if you get a fine, they're not that expensive compared to the Netherlands, where speeding fines are often twice as high.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 02:00 AM   #2318
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I know the A1 (NL) and A30 (D) stretch of the E30 very well. I always like going east on this part of the E30, while going west here is invariably a bit of a drag for me. Maybe it is because the road goes directly west so much of the time and the sun is forever in your eyes.

On crossing the NL/D border the pavement quality is ... hmmm ... substandard as is the first Rastplatz (near Feldhook).
Good job this rest area is being renovated.

Also, could someone explain to me why the A30/A2 connection and interchange near Bad Oeynhausen has not been built yet? On a bad day, you can easily lose 60-90 min stuck in traffic in Bad Oeynhausen. Is it environmental concerns that have so far prevented a proper 2x2 link road from being built here, bypassing BO?


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Old October 5th, 2009, 09:32 AM   #2319
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The new bypass (A30) of Bad Oeynhausen is under construction. However, we will have to wait for 2014 at least. Construction is now underway for a year, and I wasn't impressed at all with the progress.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 01:36 PM   #2320
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That's too bad. I've been in Bad Oeynhausen a few times now when the place is congested it's really horrible
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