daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 14th, 2011, 10:39 AM   #3181
Baiazid
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,022
Likes (Received): 1019

Quote:
Originally Posted by Positronn View Post
The view is astonishing, but is that wooden guard-rails? Is it safe?
Safe? What do you plan to do when you get there?
Baiazid no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 15th, 2011, 07:09 PM   #3182
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,559
Likes (Received): 19352

A49 Kassel - Gemünden (A5)

Construction began today for a 12 kilometer extension of A12 near Schwalmstadt in the state of Hessen. This is the most expensive section of the entire A49 project at a cost of € 205 million or € 17 million per kilometer.

The next section is Schwalmstadt - Stadtallendorf, length 13 kilometer, cost € 105 million (€ 8 million per km). The final section is Stadtallendorf - Gemünden (A5) length 17 kilometer, cost € 216 million (€ 12.7 million per km).

A record of decision for these two sections is expected in 2011. Whether construction can commence soon depends on federal funding.

ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2011, 07:38 PM   #3183
piotr71
Registered User
 
piotr71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Beskidy
Posts: 4,300

I like this wir bauen fuer sie.
__________________
piotr71 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2011, 07:39 PM   #3184
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,466
Likes (Received): 2081

Quote:
Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
I like this wir bauen fuer sie.
They put this in Italy also: "Stiamo lavorando per voi"
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2011, 08:08 PM   #3185
muc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Munich
Posts: 158
Likes (Received): 38

Quote:
is that all, or there are some more Mautstations in Germany?
There are in fact several smaller roads in the Alps with Maut (toll). Usually in private ownership as far as I know.

Some examples that come to my mind are:
  • Brannenburg - Sudelfeld
  • Rottach-Egern - Valepp
  • Vorderriss - Wallgau
  • Klais - Elmau

I am sure there are more.
muc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2011, 11:37 PM   #3186
thun
Registered User
 
thun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,829

Yes, those Bavarian mountain roads are operated by private owners. Another example is the road in the Fastenoy valley south of Oberstdorf (it's Germanys southernmost road).

On "normal" roads tolls were introduced as a PPP model to finance special structures (tunnels and bridges, usually), you'll find some of these in Northern Germany (e. g. the Warnetunnel in Rostock and the Travetunnel at Lübeck).
__________________
Folglich mein TagesTipp => Es genau so hinzunehmen wie ich es sagte. Notorisches Widersprechen wird nichts bringen. Ehrlich! Vertraut mir da voellig!
__________ __________ __________
thun no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2011, 11:42 PM   #3187
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,559
Likes (Received): 19352

PPP projects can also be financed using shadow tolls. This means the government uses tax revenue to pay off private investors. They did this in the Netherlands in the 90's. This means the users are paying the tolls via the regular motor vehicle taxes and not via physical toll collection.

It can be a useful solution to execute large public works where the full amount of money is not available at once.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2011, 12:19 AM   #3188
thun
Registered User
 
thun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,829

Another German model is to pay the investor back by transferring the income of truck tolls on the road he invests in to him. That is done e. g. on the A8 between Augsburg and Munich.
__________________
Folglich mein TagesTipp => Es genau so hinzunehmen wie ich es sagte. Notorisches Widersprechen wird nichts bringen. Ehrlich! Vertraut mir da voellig!
__________ __________ __________
thun no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2011, 12:22 AM   #3189
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,559
Likes (Received): 19352

I have to add that the financial risks can be quite high if you use shadow tolls. For example when traffic volumes are much higher than projected (what often happens). Which means the government has to allocate more money to shadow toll financing than budgeted.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2011, 12:45 AM   #3190
Fargo Wolf
Resident Smartass.
 
Fargo Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Port Kepler, Galilei Continent, Chakona
Posts: 685
Likes (Received): 17

Quote:
Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
I like this wir bauen fuer sie.
Sounds like a bit of Communist Propaganda there...

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
They put this in Italy also: "Stiamo lavorando per voi"
Are they trying to make you believe that they really ARE working for you, rather than catering to "Special Interest Groups"?
__________________
Resident Rouge/Assasin who is a flag wolfess on the side and would love to live in the Netherlands.
Fargo Wolf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2011, 06:04 AM   #3191
Sarcasm
Platinum Memeber
 
Sarcasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Chicago - D.C.
Posts: 261
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A49 Kassel - Gemünden (A5)

Construction began today for a 12 kilometer extension of A12 near Schwalmstadt in the state of Hessen. This is the most expensive section of the entire A49 project at a cost of € 205 million or € 17 million per kilometer.

The next section is Schwalmstadt - Stadtallendorf, length 13 kilometer, cost € 105 million (€ 8 million per km). The final section is Stadtallendorf - Gemünden (A5) length 17 kilometer, cost € 216 million (€ 12.7 million per km).

A record of decision for these two sections is expected in 2011. Whether construction can commence soon depends on federal funding.
From the same article that Chris posted the picture from.
No commencement of road work celebration is complete without some crazy environmentalists & eco-terrorists. Below we can see a left wing communist Marjana Schott protesting during the celebration. I can only wish these kind of eco-nuts got hit by a bus!

__________________
Greed is Good.
Greed is Right.
Greed Works!

Freie Fahrt für freie bürger!
Sarcasm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2011, 07:11 PM   #3192
mgk920
Nonhyphenated-American
 
mgk920's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI USA
Posts: 2,583
Likes (Received): 68

Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
Yes, those Bavarian mountain roads are operated by private owners. Another example is the road in the Fastenoy valley south of Oberstdorf (it's Germanys southernmost road).

On "normal" roads tolls were introduced as a PPP model to finance special structures (tunnels and bridges, usually), you'll find some of these in Northern Germany (e. g. the Warnetunnel in Rostock and the Travetunnel at Lübeck).
The first other example of a private 'pleasure drive' toll road in Germany that I thought of is the Nürburgring.



Mike
mgk920 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2011, 07:26 PM   #3193
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,559
Likes (Received): 19352

A44 Kassel - Eisenach

Another 5 km extension will commence tomorrow between the village of Hasselbach and the town of Waldkappel. Remarkable is that the anti-car brigade BUND dropped its objections because they didn't feel they would be able to frustrate the project after a previous section has been given the green light last year.

The Germans also claim this 64 kilometer motorway is the most expensive in the world at € 1.4 billion (€ 22 million per km).

Which is highly unlikely because I can think of at least two projects in the Netherlands being more expensive (the 63 km widening of motorways near Amsterdam at € 4.4 billion (€ 70 million per km, almost 3.5 times more expensive than this one)) (and the A4 between Delft and Rotterdam which will cost € 800 million for 7 kilometers (€ 114 million per km, over 5 times more expensive)) I doubt if we should be proud of that, but the Germans at least do not have their facts right in this matter.

http://www.hna.de/nachrichten/hessen...h-1170012.html
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd, 2011, 12:38 AM   #3194
ABRob
Registered User
 
ABRob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: road-gap between Amsterdam and Berlin
Posts: 350
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Germans also claim...
A little local newspaper claim...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Germans also claim this 64 kilometer motorway is the most expensive in the world at € 1.4 billion (€ 22 million per km).

Which is highly unlikely because I can think of at least two projects in the Netherlands being more expensive (the 63 km widening of motorways near Amsterdam at € 4.4 billion (€ 70 million per km, almost 3.5 times more expensive than this one)) (and the A4 between Delft and Rotterdam which will cost € 800 million for 7 kilometers (€ 114 million per km, over 5 times more expensive)) I doubt if we should be proud of that, but the Germans at least do not have their facts right in this matter.
You don't have to look at the Randstad for that.
The next part of the A100 in Berlin is 3,2 km long an will cost 420 million EUR (131 million per km)...
ABRob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd, 2011, 12:55 AM   #3195
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,559
Likes (Received): 19352

I wonder why newspapers make claims like that that are obviously not based on facts. Maybe their world does not extend beyond North Hessen.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 01:14 PM   #3196
Morsue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 1,282
Likes (Received): 46

Stockholm's Södra Länken tunnel system cost 7,9 billion SEK, or around 900 million EUR in 2004, for 6 kms of motorway. Construction is ongoing on Norra Länken which will cost 9 billion SEK or 1 billion EUR for 4 kms of motorway. My point is just that motorways in tunnels, and especially in urban areas, tend to be the most expensive.
Morsue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2011, 01:24 PM   #3197
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,525
Likes (Received): 21227

B7 Augsburg - Peiting

This is part of a road trip I took last weekend. This is B7, a 2x2 motorway until Landsberg am Lech and a expressway from there southward, with some awful low speed limits near Augsburg.






Augsburg, speed limit 60 km/h


Koningsburg


A96 interchange




2+1 alternate setting near Kisnau


Now it becomes a regular road with crossings like this:


Bridge over Lech. There is a nive vantage point/unserviced rest area there:




Journey ends at Peiting, where I took B23, a designated tourist route called Romantische Straße. B7 is also part of that route, except for the bypasses.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2011, 01:55 PM   #3198
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,525
Likes (Received): 21227

Deutsche Alpenstraß3

I drove on some sectors of the eastern Deutsche Alpenstraße, though not continuously.

South of Rottenbuch








Near Obernau, approaching Garmisch-Partenkirschen






__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2011, 02:11 PM   #3199
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,525
Likes (Received): 21227

B13, B307 (another sector of Deutsche Apenstraße)

This is a route following two valleys between Flech and Tatzelvurm. It follows, closely, two lakes in between: Sylvenstein and Tergem. A small part of it cuts through Austria before the final ascent to Achenpaß summit.

Before reaching Gmund am Tegermsee I took a detour via St2075 and rejoined the Deutsche Alpenstraße at Hausham.















"Traffic calmed" mountain climb near Bayenschzell, limit 50 km/h. It is absolutely ridiculous to have the road "narrowed" to build a bike lane in a very steep mountain pass totally out of reach for cyclists anyway.

__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2011, 02:15 PM   #3200
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,525
Likes (Received): 21227

Sudelfeldstraße toll road

This is a private leisure toll road branching off B307 to Milbing



Actual toll collection is done only at a small booth near Milbing.






__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autobahn, baustelle, congestion, germany, highways, marode brücken, motorways, stau

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium