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Old December 13th, 2011, 06:07 PM   #3721
ChrisZwolle
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There are plans to make it Autobahnähnlich (motorway-like). I don't think it'll be numbered A48 though.
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Old December 13th, 2011, 06:38 PM   #3722
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
There are plans to make it Autobahnähnlich (motorway-like). I don't think it'll be numbered A48 though.
Thanks. Is there any timetable?
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Old December 13th, 2011, 06:47 PM   #3723
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Is the Forestry road open to the public? It's far better quality than the Forestry/Logging roads roads where I am.
It is not open to the public. Bear in mind, though, this is likely a former DDR military road, as it follows the perimeter of the former DDR-FDR internal border.
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Old December 13th, 2011, 06:56 PM   #3724
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Thanks. Is there any timetable?
Not really. There are a number of things which make road planning in Germany somewhat unstable, mainly funding and appeals.

It is not uncommon in Germany to have secured the right to build, but no funding, which means sometimes it takes years to begin construction after the whole plan has been secured legally.

On the other hand, appeals take a very long time, if I'm correct it's possible to appeal twice (in the state and on a federal level) and the judgment can take up to two years, so sometimes a project is funded, but has to wait several years before a verdict is issued by the highest court.
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Old December 14th, 2011, 08:30 AM   #3725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Not really. There are a number of things which make road planning in Germany somewhat unstable, mainly funding and appeals.

It is not uncommon in Germany to have secured the right to build, but no funding, which means sometimes it takes years to begin construction after the whole plan has been secured legally.
I do not think this is much different from other countries. A golden rule of thumb often applies: The lead time from the initial plans to the final opening may be 30 years.

Germany seems to often build the roads in rather short sections. 5 km this year, 10 km next year, 7 km year following that, etc. This might be a result from a complex decision making procedure.
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Old December 14th, 2011, 11:40 AM   #3726
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This is something I'd like to see changed in most Western World: approval processes that never end and that reward last-minute, late appeals with more delays. Environmental activists are known, in countries like Germany, to wait until the last days of a 6-month window to fill an appeal, in hopes of delaying construction as much as possible.

Other thing we need to change is the piecemeal licensing/approval process in which every single bush is treated as if were a very important spot, and every rural landscape, even those well beyond major urban areas, was the most important piece of land ever. That makes costs skyrocket.
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Old December 14th, 2011, 02:10 PM   #3727
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This is a bonus on my photos. Former DDR-FDR border on B-27 between Braunlage and Elend

I wouldn't say this map is correct. According to it Former Yougoslavia was on the western side of the Iron Curtain
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Old December 14th, 2011, 02:27 PM   #3728
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It was, and so did Albania. Neither of them were part of Warsaw pact.
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Old December 14th, 2011, 02:39 PM   #3729
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Still Yugoslavia was a socialist country in very close relations with all the Eastern countries and not so close with the West. The regime there had all the haracteristics of the Eastern block, so I wouldn't put them on the other side of the Iron Curtain.
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Old December 14th, 2011, 03:58 PM   #3730
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I disagree with your opinion,because position of Yugoslavia at that time was unique,people could travel to almost any country free,had much more freedom than any other comunist country,there are many other issues that conform my point of view.
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Old December 14th, 2011, 04:03 PM   #3731
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Yugoslavia did not have any relations with Warsaw Pact countries. In fact it was a founding member of the so-called "Non-Aligned Movement". It was no more similar to the Eastern Block countries than it was to the Western ones.
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Old December 14th, 2011, 04:05 PM   #3732
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Quote:
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I do not think this is much different from other countries. A golden rule of thumb often applies: The lead time from the initial plans to the final opening may be 30 years.
20 years of which are political circus and 10 years of actual procedures. The Netherlands has recently switched to a new model, where funding is secured beforehand and procedures do not last longer than 4 years. Securing the funding means it won't depend on future political priority changes or future budget tightening.

Quote:
Germany seems to often build the roads in rather short sections. 5 km this year, 10 km next year, 7 km year following that, etc. This might be a result from a complex decision making procedure.
It is safer to cut a project up in segments, so that an appeal which succeed against 1 km of motorway will not jeopardize the entire project. If you cut your project up in several record of decisions (Planfeststellungsbeschlusse), you reduce the chance of delays.

However, phasing projects can potentially drag it out for a long time, for example A3 between Aschaffenburg and Würzburg. This is unwanted in case of road widenings which will impact traffic too long.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 03:28 PM   #3733
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hi

folks. does anybody have information on six lane widening and tunnel constructing works on A8 zwischen Kirchheim und Ulm ?
thanks
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constructing highways is a demanding ... a weighing task. therefore a well considering decision making process should be performed every cases of establishing new sections. only the highest possible standard should be built. only the most ecofriendly alternatives should be given green sign. and only those routes should be carried out which leaves historical landmarks the most intact.

Last edited by hiweigh; December 16th, 2011 at 03:42 PM.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 03:39 PM   #3734
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Quote:
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hi

folks. does anybody have information on six lane widening and tunnel constructing works on A8 zwischen Kirchheim und Ulm ?
thanks
I only know itz a mess right now, und ich'm avoiding that stretch as much wie moglich.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 09:23 PM   #3735
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Google Translation Pollution ?
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
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Old December 16th, 2011, 09:39 PM   #3736
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Actually funding has been secured for that section in the 2011 - 2015 investment programme of the federal government.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 09:41 PM   #3737
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So it's a guarantee that the road will be built during this period, right ?
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
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Old December 16th, 2011, 10:02 PM   #3738
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The money is there. There is a PPP-project planned for the Albaufstieg section. I don't know about the legal side, i.e. if all procedures are already completed and if there is "baurecht".
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Old December 20th, 2011, 12:10 AM   #3739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Actually funding has been secured for that section in the 2011 - 2015 investment programme of the federal government.
That means nothing!

1. This investment programme includes projects for 24.8 billion EUR, but most likely there will be only 16.8 billion EUR available untill 2015.

2. The project is far away from "Baurecht".

3. It's planned as PPP-project. So it's not even funded by this investment programme.
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Old December 22nd, 2011, 04:16 PM   #3740
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Today the A72 between Niederfrohna and Penig in eastern Germany opens.

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