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Old June 12th, 2012, 04:16 PM   #4081
panda80
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I've driven quite some kilometers both in France and Germany. For me German motorways are the best because:
- no tolls which brings 2 advantages compared to France (don't need to pay and don't need to stop at toll plazas)
- in France there are very few exits compared to Germany so you can end up driving for 20 or 30kms on a departamental road if you want to reach a smaller town
- in Germany motorway junctions are more logical, you can drive with higher speeds when changing motorway
- there are no speed limits on more than half of the network in Germany
- the network is more robust in Germany than France with its radial system
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Old June 12th, 2012, 04:33 PM   #4082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panda80 View Post
I've driven quite some kilometers both in France and Germany. For me German motorways are the best because:
- no tolls which brings 2 advantages compared to France (don't need to pay and don't need to stop at toll plazas) You stop in traffic instead
- in France there are very few exits compared to Germany so you can end up driving for 20 or 30kms on a departamental road if you want to reach a smaller town Yes, end?
- in Germany motorway junctions are more logical, you can drive with higher speeds when changing motorway No you can't, a lot of intersection even has 40 km/h limits in Germany, as most intersections in France able you to do 100.
- there are no speed limits on more than half of the network in Germany Yes, and? What is wrong with the speed limit in France
- the network is more robust in Germany than France with its radial system Do you drive in circles in Germany?
- France has a far better road quality.
- Congestion is only likely in metropolitan areas like Lille or France
- The French drive a lot better then the Germans
- Nicer sceneries in France
- Friendlier people
- Better highways to live the real driving experience: nice wide open roads.

I drive in both countries for a living (like anywhere in Europe) in a van, but I will choose France over Germany any time. Also enjoy the food a lot more.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 05:22 PM   #4083
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
- Congestion is only likely in metropolitan areas like Lille or France
- The French drive a lot better then the Germans
- Friendlier people
You've lost credibility here. Come on man you must be joking! Congestion is far worse in France , French cars without damage or scratches are hard to find (which implies that they drive worse) and the French are the most unfriendly people in Europe. You're only right about road quality, but the difference is minimal between both countries
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Old June 12th, 2012, 05:24 PM   #4084
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And you are from which planet..?
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Old June 12th, 2012, 05:34 PM   #4085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
- France has a far better road quality.
- Congestion is only likely in metropolitan areas like Lille or France
- The French drive a lot better then the Germans
- Nicer sceneries in France
- Friendlier people
- Better highways to live the real driving experience: nice wide open roads.

I drive in both countries for a living (like anywhere in Europe) in a van, but I will choose France over Germany any time. Also enjoy the food a lot more.
Besides the first two you listed, the other four are very subjective. To estabilish which is better should be based just on technical things and not "nice scenery or friendlier people" since these are personal things and cannot be taken good for an impartial rating. Such argument is like to discuss about if it's more beautiful the sea or the mountain...
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Old June 12th, 2012, 05:40 PM   #4086
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Let me put it this way: I drive for days and nights in Germany and France. In a van, as this is my job. And me and my colleagues simply prefer driving in France, based on the criteria I have mentioned. We don't need scientific prove, our own opinions and experience is sufficient enough!
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Old June 12th, 2012, 06:10 PM   #4087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Let me put it this way: I drive for days and nights in Germany and France. In a van, as this is my job. And me and my colleagues simply prefer driving in France, based on the criteria I have mentioned. We don't need scientific prove, our own opinions and experience is sufficient enough!
So what you need is a bit of humility and respect of other people's opinions too, since you haven't been elected as truth's spokesman. You can have driven millions of kilometers but even this doesn't give you the right to treat people with superiority like you're the only one able to drive.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 07:19 PM   #4088
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I base my opinion on my own experience, and will express them here. If someone else has a different opinion, then they are entitled to express them. And I will contradict if I don't agree, that is what a forum is all about. If someone starts typing things out of their arse like:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Der-Roedie View Post
You've lost credibility here. Come on man you must be joking! Congestion is far worse in France , French cars without damage or scratches are hard to find (which implies that they drive worse) and the French are the most unfriendly people in Europe. You're only right about road quality, but the difference is minimal between both countries
and

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Originally Posted by threo2k View Post
I must say that German autobahns are absolutely the best in the world! No doubt about that. Not just the roads, but also the nature matchs together with the roads!

I have drived on all the autobahns in germany but not the A17 from Drezden to Prague. I hope to do this in the near future!
Then they are entitled to that, but because these are unfounded, I will react a bit harshly, without being offensive. If people do get offended, then that is their own decision. I am also a strong believer of freedom of speech.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 09:27 PM   #4089
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Also I forgot to add that the standard width of driving lanes in Germany is 3.75m instead of 3.5m in France. Driving when there is significant traffic makes you feel a little bit claustrophobic in France. I mentioned the more robust motorway system not because I want to drive in circles but because you ussually have alternatives in case of an accident or congestion.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 10:11 PM   #4090
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As you can see the network in both countries are very good. Congestion outside the cities in France is extremely unlikely, compared to Germany. And even in the big cities there are a lot of alternatives, as most cities have their own ringroad. In France I have only been stuck in traffic in the rushours at Paris, Lille, Bordeaux, Strasbourg, Lyon, Orleans and Reims. I`ve been travelling from Spain to Calais on the Samedi Noir (Black Saturday) once, and most of the A10 was busy but largely congestion free. Only at toll plaza's you mostly have to endure congestions on the black Saturdays. And there are not much motorway alternatives if you travel from example Frankfurt to Munich. You will probably be stuck in traffic all the same, something that will not happen in France.
I will not get into a debate about better driving in either of these countries, only because lanes in Germany happen to be 25 cm wider!
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Old June 13th, 2012, 12:55 AM   #4091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panda80 View Post
- no tolls which brings 2 advantages compared to France (don't need to pay and don't need to stop at toll plazas)
And this is a HUGE advantage open networks have over closed ones. The toll stop is always a bottleneck, but that's not the worst thing.
The main problem is that you can never connect a high-capacity open road directly to a closed system motorway, so you'll always have land-consuming and flow-slowing connecting roads, often placed in odd points of the network chosen upon the available space instead of the traffic flow needs.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 02:18 AM   #4092
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My own opinion (considering that I drove much more in Germany than in France):

Bad side of German motorways:
- German motorways are often overcrowded, French ones are much more fitted to the amount of cars.
- German motorways, especially the older ones (basically the ones having a one digit number) have very long sections with very poor quality, usually built in the '30s or perhaps '50s and never refurbished since that. I've never seen such poor quality in France like A7 in Germany.
- German motorways have lots of Baustelle, sometimes very long ones, one must drive by 80 through 10-12 kilometers, then 8 km free flow, and another Baustelle having a length of 6 km. It's terrible.
- Too much accidents in German motorways (alright, I admit, Hungarian M0 is much worse by having 5-8 accidents weekly), and even by an easy accident one must stand still for one hour or even more.
- Several special speed limits (e.g. 22-06h or over 7.5t) and the additional signs have so little letter size that it's almost impossible to read when you drive at 120. Speed limit signs can make you confused if there are more of them, e.g. 100 for 22-05 and 80 for 7.5t and you have no idea what speed shall you drive between 22-05 with a truck over 7.5t.

Good side of German motorways:
- German motorway network is denser, especially in densely inhabitated regions.
- German motorways are free to use. For me, coming from a not so wealthy nation, French tolls are horrible, and the way one has to pay it (e.g. in Provancale where you must stop in each 10-15 kms for pay 2 or 3 euro) makes it even worse.
- No speed limit. Usually I do not drive over 120 (it's fast enough for me and my car has a good consumption at that speed) but when I overtake a car I don't need to check my speed.
- A personal aspect: I speak good German so that I understand every signs, I can speak with any fuel station assistant, etc., but I don't speak French and many French people do not speak any foreign languages so I have communication problems there.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 02:46 AM   #4093
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The most pratical thing for me is still money. Free highways means to save a lot of money. Let's take for example the routes Paris-Marseille and Hamburg-München that have exactly the same lenght: the french route costs 110€ more than the german one (go and back). And sorry if this is few....
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Old June 13th, 2012, 03:15 AM   #4094
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Quote:
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- German motorways are often overcrowded, French ones are much more fitted to the amount of cars.
The explanation of this is in tolls. Who can, uses alternatives free routes cause french highways are expansive. In Germany you don't need this, so the highway is very practical. Evidence of this is for example the A35 Mulhouse-Strasbourg that's free; is crowded as much as a german highway. And from Basel to Strasbourg however I find more pratical the german "twin" A5. It's faster.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 03:22 AM   #4095
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Is there a map which shows all roads with this sign in Germany?

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Old June 13th, 2012, 03:50 AM   #4096
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Yes and no. I could not find any proper map doing a quick search, however, www.openstreetmaps.org might solve this. All Autobans are blue, and the Kraftfarhstraße (the above sign) are actually green. The same goes for Denmark and Austria (at least).

The problem with this map is that it shows woods in the same green color, so you need to zoom in and pan around to find them. Could definitly be better, but you have something
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Old June 13th, 2012, 09:15 AM   #4097
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One thing to like about German highways is that they do nice landscaping around interchanges with tons of vegetation and so... they do that as no other country in Europe AFAIK. Rarely you have a bare-land interchange.

In any case, where the Germans get a high mark are with their B-level highways and expressways. They have a solid network of those, only Italy has a better network of 2nd tier expressways (Spain could have, but they just build full highways tehre instead :p )
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Old June 13th, 2012, 09:22 AM   #4098
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Let me put it this way: I drive for days and nights in Germany and France. In a van, as this is my job. And me and my colleagues simply prefer driving in France, based on the criteria I have mentioned. We don't need scientific prove, our own opinions and experience is sufficient enough!
There's your problem (assuming heavy >3.5t vans). Of course driving in France is better if you drive a slow van, have to drive during busy hours and your employer pays for the tolls...

Drive in a normal car capable of high speed comfortably ( so no city tincans or big slow vans) in quiet hours ( when travelling for personal reasons anyone can decide to travel at night rather than mess about in heavy traffic), and you will see why Germany is far nicer to drive in.

As for the French nice people, that is subjective, I definitely prefer Germans, at least they are not so arrogant about their language. Try speaking English in France, they will often burble back in French... But I'm biased too, as I can speak Dutch and they will mostly understand me, and they can speak German to me and I will mostly understand it.

''You stop in traffic instead''
Easily avoided by travelling at night, unlike toll booths which slow you down and cost you extra money 24/7.
''Yes, end?''
Drive over rubbish slow roads instead of quickly covering miles on a highway...
''Yes, and? What is wrong with the speed limit in France''
Yes there is. Germany is one of the few countries which doesn't have a completely retarded view on speed limits, at least they understand that in many areas a speed limit makes no sense at all.

Driving through Germany is faster ( I guess arguable depending on time of the day, and if keeping to the speed limits) and cheaper than in France, what else matters ?

Last edited by snowdog; June 13th, 2012 at 09:43 AM.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 09:58 AM   #4099
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Tell what I am going to do: I am going to have a coffee and a cigarette, then take a shower and get dressed, and then I will come back to you. In the mean time, why don't you take a look at my van, parked here in our garden here in Austria where I live most of my time. It does 170 km/h, and I will go that fast in it in Germany. I will explain to you why driving in Germany doesn't get me anywhere faster then in France...
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Old June 13th, 2012, 12:27 PM   #4100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
Yes and no. I could not find any proper map doing a quick search, however, www.openstreetmaps.org might solve this. All Autobans are blue, and the Kraftfarhstraße (the above sign) are actually green. The same goes for Denmark and Austria (at least).
That is a misinterpretation. Road which appear green in the OSM standard map are marked as trunk. There are, however, not necessarily motor roads (Kraftfahrstrassen). Neither are all motor roads marked as trunk. Hence there is a separate motorroad tag. Which is, however, rarely displayed in maps.
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