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Old June 19th, 2012, 07:37 PM   #4141
bogdymol
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I agree with fines according to your income. As someone previously stated, a rich spoiled kid won't look at 100 € so he will continue speeding. But what if the fine would be 2000 €? Maybe he will think twice. Fines should be adjusted in such a way that for a minor offence you won't pay too much (everybody can break the speed limit with 10-20 km/h by mistake), but should be high for major offences (driving 50+ km/h over the limit, driving on red light, driving drunk, driving wrong way etc.).

Also, there should be a point system, so you know that you have to keep you point on your license (or don't get any points - it depends from country to country: in some you get points for a fine, in others you are substracted points).

PS: in Romania you can get a fine only if you break the speed limit with 10+ km/h. At 9 km/h you might get just a warning, but nobody would stop you for that.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 07:43 PM   #4142
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I don't agree, the danger of offenses is not less if you're poor.
Just for example, Balotelli in few months arrived in Manchester collected fines for 10.000 pounds and his car has been towed 27 times. 10.000 pounds for a person that earns 6,5 millions yearly, is nothing!! If such fines instead would be proportional to his salary, after two times got fined maybe he would have tought twice before to do another infraction
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Old June 19th, 2012, 07:45 PM   #4143
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How about the points? At how many do you get driving ban?
At 18 points you get a driving ban.
In the future Germany want to change the point system with that you can get a driving ban at 8 points.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 07:52 PM   #4144
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I do agree, because rich people couldn't care less how much they would have to pay and will keep on speeding. This is unfair to poor people who will get hit harder.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 07:57 PM   #4145
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So if poor people break the law, it's less of an offense just because they're poor? The rules are the same for everyone, why not the fines?
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:01 PM   #4146
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Old grey haired fossils deciding speed limits is stupid.

160 for 10 km/h to fast is an amount of money for such a minor offence that barely poses any risk that I must conclude the person who thought this should be the fines is mentally ill. And should seek mental help asap. imho.
I thought the fines here were retarded already, but 160 for 10km/h to fast ? That's ''go to a mental insitute, cuckoo'' high.

The Swiss are retarded in terms of their speed enforcement too imho.

Sounds like people in those countries are stuck on their moral high horse ''omg child killer'' for anyone who goes a tiny little bit to fast. Otherwise they'd never accept such state-terrorism.

All of course imo. But I just can't bring any empathy to the anti speed brigade and other people who spend their lives on a moral high horse or still live in the 70's.


Fines should be relative to danger, driving 10 km/h over the limit in the middle of the night causes danger to the people sleeping in their beds ?
High fines should be given for right of way mistakes, or REAL speed offences ( eg. 70-80km/h @ a 30km/h school zone), not 10 km/h to fast.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:02 PM   #4147
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
So if poor people break the law, it's less of an offense just because they're poor? The rules are the same for everyone, why not the fines?
Because rich people will automatically think that [speed limit for them] = [speed limit] + X, where X is the number of km/h at the limit of loosing their license or not. So they will drive as fast as they won't loose their license, but just get a fine of 10, 100 or 1000 €, which is pocket change for them.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:02 PM   #4148
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Rules are the same, therefore rich people should get hit just as hard as poor people. They should both cry because of the money they had to surrender, not just the poor guy. I think the Swiss system is a very good and fair system.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:03 PM   #4149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
I agree with fines according to your income. As someone previously stated, a rich spoiled kid won't look at 100 € so he will continue speeding. But what if the fine would be 2000 €? Maybe he will think twice. Fines should be adjusted in such a way that for a minor offence you won't pay too much (everybody can break the speed limit with 10-20 km/h by mistake), but should be high for major offences (driving 50+ km/h over the limit, driving on red light, driving drunk, driving wrong way etc.).

Also, there should be a point system, so you know that you have to keep you point on your license (or don't get any points - it depends from country to country: in some you get points for a fine, in others you are substracted points).

PS: in Romania you can get a fine only if you break the speed limit with 10+ km/h. At 9 km/h you might get just a warning, but nobody would stop you for that.
Maybe police should also do it's job, and not let all these *******s get away with everything, just because they are politically protected. I don't think in Germany you get away even if you are Merkel.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:03 PM   #4150
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then why not start introducing variable housing prices, variable VAT, variable tolls, variable telephone rates... Really, it's just petty jealousy that people can afford to get many fines. Has it ever been proven traffic safety degrades because the 0.1% can afford just about any fine?
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:06 PM   #4151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Has it ever been proven traffic safety degrades because the 0.1% can afford just about any fine?
1-0 for you with this line...

And yeah, maybe it's a little jealousy, but that's because I see many idiots rich spoiled kids driving how they want here in Romania. And they are not severely punished for doing that...
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:15 PM   #4152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
then why not start introducing variable housing prices, variable VAT, variable tolls, variable telephone rates... Really, it's just petty jealousy that people can afford to get many fines. Has it ever been proven traffic safety degrades because the 0.1% can afford just about any fine?
you cant compare this: you are very well aware that you break the law when doing 230 km/h when only 130 is allowed. and therefore if youre rich you should pay more. buying a ticket at the toll plaza is cumpolsory if you want to use the motorway.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:15 PM   #4153
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Fines should be proportional to the salary income (like in Switzerland). Otherwise just poor people have to pay for real and those driving fast and expansive cars or huge SUVs can do what they want cause 100 or 200 € don't change their lives for nothing
Here in the USA, a rule like that would get those corrupt little 'tollgate' speedtrap towns SALIVATING - "Hey Buford, leave all of them rusty old Chevies and pickups alone and let's go after some BMWs, Escalades and Lexusususususes!" "You got it, Sheriff!"



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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:18 PM   #4154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
then why not start introducing variable housing prices, variable VAT, variable tolls, variable telephone rates... Really, it's just petty jealousy that people can afford to get many fines. Has it ever been proven traffic safety degrades because the 0.1% can afford just about any fine?
VAT is charged depending on what people spend and tax is charged on what people earn. And poor people generally live in cheaper houses. So yes, it is variable. Poor people spend less money then rich people in every way.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:22 PM   #4155
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Here in the USA, a rule like that would get those corrupt little 'tollgate' speedtrap towns SALIVATING - "Hey Buford, leave all of them rusty old Chevies and pickups alone and let's go after some BMWs, Escalades and Lexusususususes!" "You got it, Sheriff!"



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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:23 PM   #4156
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The problem is that the vast majority of offenses which are handled through fines are for speeding and parking. Speeding fines issued are chiefly on revenue locations rather than actual black spots and parking fines are an annoyance, but rarely a real danger to traffic safety.
So I don't think a "high income surcharge" will really do anything to improve traffic safety. The majority of the major offenses are not handled through fines, but by the suspension of the driver's license or impounded vehicles, which will hit the rich just as much as the poor.

By varying fines you'll end up with a system where the poor pay the current fines and the middle- and upper classes pay fines that are out of proportion in relation to the offense (as some fines already are).
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:23 PM   #4157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
then why not start introducing variable housing prices, variable VAT, variable tolls, variable telephone rates... Really, it's just petty jealousy that people can afford to get many fines. Has it ever been proven traffic safety degrades because the 0.1% can afford just about any fine?
It's difference, cause the law must be the same for everybody so the ticket offence. Like this is not the same, cause a rich people for example can park savagely over sidewalk, double lane, even in the middle of the street and pay a ticket that won't make change him to stop to break law.

Concerning Italy a proportional fine according to the income would be usefull also to catch also many tax evaders, since there are too many people driving cars that apparently from they income tax filling couldn't have...
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:26 PM   #4158
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Originally Posted by Satyricon84 View Post
Just for example, Balotelli in few months arrived in Manchester collected fines for 10.000 pounds and his car has been towed 27 times. 10.000 pounds for a person that earns 6,5 millions yearly, is nothing!! If such fines instead would be proportional to his salary, after two times got fined maybe he would have tought twice before to do another infraction
No matter how rich he is, those 27 tows in a few months would have been annoying enough to him, I'd think, to make him pay more attention to where he parks (or whatever he got towed for)....
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #4159
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Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
Here in the USA, a rule like that would get those corrupt little 'tollgate' speedtrap towns SALIVATING - "Hey Buford, leave all of them rusty old Chevies and pickups alone and let's go after some BMWs, Escalades and Lexusususususes!" "You got it, Sheriff!"



Mike
What makes you think they don't do that?
Not vary the fines, of course, but pick-and-choose who they stop and ticket?
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:40 PM   #4160
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No matter how rich he is, those 27 tows in a few months would have been annoying enough to him, I'd think, to make him pay more attention to where he parks (or whatever he got towed for)....
To break law shouldn't be a privilege for rich people that can pay fines as we pay a coffee, but should be something that hit everybody in the same way since the law is the same for everybody (and hit offencers in the same way)

About him, he solved the problem hiring a driver.
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