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Old October 14th, 2012, 03:53 PM   #4441
Penn's Woods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Where are you from? Terms like that makes more sense in the USA. Not in Europe, where keeping right on the continent, and keeping left in the UK and Ireland is the norm.
[clears throat]
Speaking as an American-born native speaker of English, I have never used the term "inside lane" (or "lane 1") and would need to clarify what the person using it means by it. (I have heard inside lane....) I talk of left lanes, right lanes, middle lanes; or slow and fast lanes or passing lanes. I am fully aware that talking of left and right lanes is problematic when dealing with countries that insist on driving on the wrong side of the road.

Your humble servant is aware that he is an unrepresentative sample of Americans, native speakers of English, roadgeeks or what have you. And that for way too many Americans, most of whom seem to have been in front of me yesterday, terms like slow lane and passing lane represent goals rather than reality, when they're not simply meaningless.

Thank you for your attention.
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Old October 14th, 2012, 06:18 PM   #4442
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Inside lane is commonly used in Britain.
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Old October 14th, 2012, 06:24 PM   #4443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
If those numbers are right and if the mix of local versus long-distance traffic is similar on each of these roads (which might not be the case), then there would be virtually no traffic on the A480.

I agree that completing the A480 would be much less expensive than the completing the A4.
You can look for the numbers at www.bast.de. Or look the maps at autobahnatlas-online.de.
I'm not saying there isn't any traffic which would benefit of closing the A4 gap. But it's way too few, that spending billions of euros in this mountainous area would be justified, especially when at the same time there's even not enough money for much more urgent projects around Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Hamburg, the Ruhr Area, etc which cause giant traffic jams every day.


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I disagree with your prediction that upgrading the B49 to autobahn standard will not relieve traffic around Frankfurt. Some east-west traffic will choose the new autobahn which would otherwise have driven via Frankfurt. For example, Luxembourg - Wroclaw traffic.
Wow, one car every three days... There aren't too many relations where the detour via Frankfurt's overfilled streets would be an alternative to using the B49 already today. You virtually won't see a significant effect on traffic numbers of A3, A5 or A66 when upgrading of the B49 is finished.
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Old October 14th, 2012, 07:19 PM   #4444
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Inside lane is commonly used in Britain.
I'm not doubting you, just agreeing with the person who says it's ambiguous.
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Old October 14th, 2012, 08:56 PM   #4445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Inside lane is commonly used in Britain.
So is ''BMW/Audi lane'' .



I also always thought ''inside lane'' was the most left lane or fast lane... And yes, that's a term used in Holland in some situations. Also the times that people keep to the right unless overtaking are long gone lol, middle lane hoggers...

I can easily overtake trains of 20-30 cars on the most right lane every day on the A16 ring Rotterdam.

Autobahns 3,11 and 30 are perfect examples of autobahns where speeds on the left lane easily surpass 160 km/h... I recently drove to the north coast of Poland through Berlin and on Autobahn 11 driving at 180 km/h I was overtaken as if I was standing still by many many cars, people easily drive over 220 km/h there.
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Old October 15th, 2012, 05:38 PM   #4446
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ich hatte kürzlich ne diskussion mit einen erfahrenen (Schweizer) LKW-Fahrer, welcher bahauptet hat: "in Deutschland sind nicht alle Autobahnen mit einem Zaun abgegrenzt."
Ich behaupte es sind mind. 90% oder wenn nicht 100%.
weiss einer hier Bescheid?

I had a discussion with an experienced swiss truck driver, who insisted, "not all of highways in German has a fence."
I argue that about 90% has it, even maybe 100%.
Does somebody know the score? circa...
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Old October 16th, 2012, 09:45 AM   #4447
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I would even say that MOST autobahns are not separated by fences from fields and forests. This is mainly because of protecting traveling wildlife animals but which results in a greater threat for cars.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 12:34 PM   #4448
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So the nets can't just be brought in when accidents happen? Insane.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 01:04 PM   #4449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heri123 View Post
ich hatte kürzlich ne diskussion mit einen erfahrenen (Schweizer) LKW-Fahrer, welcher bahauptet hat: "in Deutschland sind nicht alle Autobahnen mit einem Zaun abgegrenzt."
Ich behaupte es sind mind. 90% oder wenn nicht 100%.
weiss einer hier Bescheid?

I had a discussion with an experienced swiss truck driver, who insisted, "not all of highways in German has a fence."
I argue that about 90% has it, even maybe 100%.
Does somebody know the score? circa...
There's older stretches of Autobahn that haven't been upgaraded for one reason or another but the vast majority of Autobahn has the "Wildfangzaun".
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Old October 16th, 2012, 01:04 PM   #4450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isek View Post
I would even say that MOST autobahns are not separated by fences from fields and forests. This is mainly because of protecting traveling wildlife animals but which results in a greater threat for cars.
Most are and the fences are usually cleverly hidden in vegetation or integrated in noise reduction works along the way but they're there when you look closely.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 09:50 PM   #4451
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Wildfangzäune are only mounted in areas where examinations of the local wildlife have proven that there is a high likelihood of larger animals attempting to cross the Autobahn. It is not at all universal, including newer/upgraded stretches, such as e.g. the A7 near Würzburg.

There are areas where you have near 100% coverage. That is in particular the case for Autobahns running through forests and nature parks, and for anywhere where there are Green Bridges.
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Old October 18th, 2012, 01:37 PM   #4452
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Sophisticated answers, thank you guys
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Old October 26th, 2012, 04:09 PM   #4453
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Do you know when the Baustelle between Allershausen and Neufahrn will be cleared?
I want to drive in the direction on 1.November and think to take the B13 if it's not ready.
I hope that the whole Germany will not drive towards Italy, blocking A9, A99, A8 and I can make it to Ljubljana in decent time
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Old October 26th, 2012, 04:17 PM   #4454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I'm not doubting you, just agreeing with the person who says it's ambiguous.
It's a very ambiguous term and as such I find it highly unnatural. To me "inside" would most logically relate to the lane closest to the centre of the road or to traffic travelling in the opposite direction. "Inside" and "outside" relative to the driver's position doesn't make any sense to me.
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Old October 26th, 2012, 05:09 PM   #4455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
Do you know when the Baustelle between Allershausen and Neufahrn will be cleared?
I want to drive in the direction on 1.November and think to take the B13 if it's not ready.
I hope that the whole Germany will not drive towards Italy, blocking A9, A99, A8 and I can make it to Ljubljana in decent time
The Baustelle there has been cleared at October 9th.

See Autobahndirektion Südbayern
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Old October 26th, 2012, 10:22 PM   #4456
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Thanks!
I was google-ing but didn't find anything.
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Old October 30th, 2012, 01:13 AM   #4457
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Some construction pictures of the new A4 stretch west of the city of Jena. This autobahn gets a new routing in this area because of environmental reasons and lack of room for a widening on the old route. Part of this construction is the new Jagdbergtunnel with a length of 3100 m.
The total length of the whole newly built stretch is 11,8 km.

SOURCE

On the left you can see the new path of the A4.


Close up.


View in the opposite direction from that hill.


The new A4.






Western tunnel portal.






Eastern tunnel portal.






Looking east. On the right side you can see the old A4.




This new bridge crosses the new autobahn stretch and ends currently directly on the old one.








Some pictures from the construction going on inside the tunnel.








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Old October 30th, 2012, 01:58 AM   #4458
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And what will the old road be used to when they finish the tunel? will it be an alternative route to jena?
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Old October 30th, 2012, 09:53 AM   #4459
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Great report. I've read the new A4 is substantially delayed.
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Old October 30th, 2012, 01:04 PM   #4460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threo2k View Post
And what will the old road be used to when they finish the tunel? will it be an alternative route to jena?

The old stretch of the A4 will be demolished and renaturalized because it runs through an environmentally valuable area.

BTW:
This old A4 stretch has only 2x2 lanes, no hard shoulders, a steep ascent and some nasty curves.
The new stretch of the A4 will have 2x3 lanes, hard shoulders and a much more driver friendly route.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Great report. I've read the new A4 is substantially delayed.

Thanks.
Such reports are (imo) important to show people that the autobahn network in good ol´Germany is still being optimised and renewed in contrast to some haters who pop up from time to time and claim the opposite.

The delay of this project is due to the fact that the tunnel has to be outfitted with additional safety equipment to be able to be used by hazardous materials transportation (Gefahrguttransporte).

This wasn´t planned during the concept phase but the authorities changed their minds as they suddenly realized that it would be "not so good" to send these transports through the villages around that tunnel.
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Last edited by Deadeye Reloaded; November 6th, 2012 at 06:36 PM.
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