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Old November 6th, 2012, 07:01 PM   #4481
ChrisZwolle
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That is really good news! I intend to use this A33, it's very convenient from Zwolle towards Kassel and points beyond. I've driven here many times.

There are basically two options from Zwolle to Kassel, the southern route via B54, A1 and A44, and the northern route via A30 and A33. The northern route will be superior in terms of traffic density and design standards.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 03:10 PM   #4482
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It´s nice to know that there are Autobahn fans beyond the border!
Although you will have to wait until 2019 to use this new stretch.

BTW:
I don´t understand why the construction of highways in Germany takes so much time.
Let´s compare it with Poland. They managed to build several hundreds of kilometers of new roads in the past five years and this construction speed will be most probably the same in the next five years.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 03:18 PM   #4483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post

I don´t understand why the construction of highways in Germany takes so much time.
Never as much time as in Italy
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Old November 7th, 2012, 03:32 PM   #4484
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Germany is afflicted with more NIMBYs than Poland.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 03:35 PM   #4485
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NIMBY's have very little to do with actual construction time. It's not just procedures that take more time, construction time in Germany is also substantially longer.

For example, the Netherlands widened a 1940s motorway over a distance 30 kilometers in just 18 months, entirely replacing all viaducts and bridges within a narrow right-of-way with a symetrical widening (which is more traffic disrupting than an asymmetrical widening outside traffic). A project like that would have taken 4 - 6 years in Germany.

Another difference is that Germany has a different way of constructing a motorway. In the Netherlands, Poland and Denmark, the entire project is done via a single contractor. In Germany many aspects are tendered separately. For example the opening of A71 in Thüringen has been delayed by several months because an appeal against the tender of guardrails, while the motorway is basically completed.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 03:59 PM   #4486
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Quote:
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In Germany many aspects are tendered separately. For example the opening of A71 in Thüringen has been delayed by several months because an appeal against the tender of guardrails, while the motorway is basically completed.
Wow! That's just nuts.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 05:28 PM   #4487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post
I don´t understand why the construction of highways in Germany takes so much time.
It's all down to funding streams. Construction progress is just as fast as funds are poured into a project. With Germany being a federal country in which all Länder make sure that they receive their share, funds are widely spread over many projects all over the country rather than concentrated on a few ones. So, we get plenty of small scale projects which take years to be finished.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post
Let´s compare it with Poland. They managed to build several hundreds of kilometers of new roads in the past five years and this construction speed will be most probably the same in the next five years.
Poland is a rather dissimilar and therefore rather inappropriate to be compared to. Unlike the Polish one the German motorway network is pretty dense already. It growth in width rather than length these days and it requires vastly more maintenance. Hence there are very few new motorway-kilometres in Germany to show off.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 09:28 AM   #4488
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Originally Posted by F81 View Post
Never as much time as in Italy
Could you please tell me which italian Autostrada needed 7 years of road works for 4 km?!?
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Old November 8th, 2012, 10:31 AM   #4489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Colbert View Post
Could you please tell me which italian Autostrada needed 7 years of road works for 4 km?!?
2005-2012, 6 km of A31 Valdastico South.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 11:37 AM   #4490
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A single case doesn't represent a statistic case.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 11:49 AM   #4491
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it's still 6km, so not 4km
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Old November 8th, 2012, 11:55 AM   #4492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Colbert View Post
A single case doesn't represent a statistic case.
I just answered to your question. You asked "which autostrada", not for statistic cases.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 12:08 PM   #4493
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Still remain a single case; in my experience these long-term road works in Germany are systematic, as confirmed to me my german friends.

/OT
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Old November 8th, 2012, 12:11 PM   #4494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Colbert View Post
Still remain a single case; in my experience these long-term road works in Germany are systematic, as confirmed to me my german friends.

/OT
Wanna talk about A3, or Variante di Valico, their ends constantly postponed? Ok, they're major pieces of roadwork.

Let's talk about A20, 41 km took 36 years to build. Thirty-six.

Italy is the land of neverending works, not Germany for sure.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 12:18 PM   #4495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Colbert

Could you please tell me which italian Autostrada needed 7 years of road works for 4 km?!?
A28 Sacile - Conegliano
13km flat area
1996-2010
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Old November 8th, 2012, 12:27 PM   #4496
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I was waiting you on A3!
A3 is more than 400km long, is under rebuilding from scratch, is a mountain Autostrada with the highest point beyond 1000 meters, with tunnels and viaduct.
All the example that you posted are refering to construction, even from scratch, of new paths, not about widening road works.

Of course, to be honest, our bureaucracy system is not well known as a very efficient system...
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Old November 8th, 2012, 12:33 PM   #4497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Colbert View Post
I was waiting you on A3!
A3 is more than 400km long, is under rebuilding from scratch, is a mountain Autostrada with the highest point beyond 1000 meters, with tunnels and viaduct.
All the example that you posted are refering to construction, even from scratch, of new paths, not about widening road works.
We weren't talking about widenings, were we?
There are a thousand other examples. A18 Catania-Gela in Sicily, not yet in Gela after 28 years. A12 still missing 200 km and works substantially stopped since 1975.

Quote:
Of course, to be honest, our bureaucracy system is not well known as a very efficient system...
I agree with you on that.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 12:50 PM   #4498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
We weren't talking about widenings, were we?
...
Yes, but you posted only "from scratch" building of Autostrada: for example the Variante di Valico is a new path not a widening of the existing A1.

Want you talk about 2x3 widening of A9?
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Old November 11th, 2012, 07:12 PM   #4499
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Not directly related to autobahns, but what does this sign means?
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Old November 11th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #4500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valvejoodik View Post
Not directly related to autobahns, but what does this sign means?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...08003636_n.jpg
Wrong guess deleted.

Last edited by mcarling; November 11th, 2012 at 08:44 PM.
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