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Old May 10th, 2013, 06:05 PM   #4881
mcarling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElviS77 View Post

Rather off topic, don't you think..? Far more people die on the Bundesstrassen than on Autobahnen, that's the point. And I for one think it makes sense to deal with that in a sensible manner...
No, it's not off-topic. If the government wants to limit people's freedom to save lives, reducing speed limits is not a sensible way to do it. That's true even before factoring in the incredible amount of time wasted by ridiculously low speed limits. The Bundesstrassen are quite safe at 100 km/h, compared to many other activities.
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Old May 10th, 2013, 06:19 PM   #4882
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So you believe speedlimits infringes freedom?
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Old May 10th, 2013, 06:25 PM   #4883
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Is that a rhetorical question?
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Old May 10th, 2013, 06:29 PM   #4884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
So you believe speedlimits infringes freedom?
Axiomatically.
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Old May 10th, 2013, 07:02 PM   #4885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
Is that a rhetorical question?
No, just a question.
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Old May 10th, 2013, 07:39 PM   #4886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
No, it's not off-topic. If the government wants to limit people's freedom to save lives, reducing speed limits is not a sensible way to do it. That's true even before factoring in the incredible amount of time wasted by ridiculously low speed limits. The Bundesstrassen are quite safe at 100 km/h, compared to many other activities.
You're at risk of falling into the typical trick to avoid an issue: shifting the focus on something else, which may even be a good point but still is a different one.

Let's just stick to the question, with pros and cons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post
Example:
Citroen 2CV vs. Porsche 911. Both drivers enjoy their ride. No need to implement speed limits!
Although I'm not for the mandatory limit, I still ask myself what the hell could the Carrera's driver do if the SUV in front may decide to overtake the next car.
Yes, everyone must check the mirror before shifting lane, but it can be pretty hard to see that coming.

I'm not worried by 911 vs. 2CV, since they're pretty much sticking to different lanes.
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Old May 10th, 2013, 08:55 PM   #4887
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That Porsche was going considerably more than twice the ~80 km/h speed of the 2CV, which has nothing to do with what the speed limit should be on the Bundesstrassen.
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Old May 10th, 2013, 08:57 PM   #4888
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I say stick with 100. 80 is too much of a drag, and can cause aggressive and dangerous overtaking. Unless you go Dutch, and implement complete overtaking bans...
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Old May 10th, 2013, 09:12 PM   #4889
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I don't know, one has to determine the speed of approaching vehicle in the mirror. maybe some sensor which would detect the speed of the vehicles in the back and display it on the screen inside the mirror would be cool.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 12:02 PM   #4890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElviS77 View Post
Rather off topic, don't you think..? Far more people die on the Bundesstrassen than on Autobahnen, that's the point. And I for one think it makes sense to deal with that in a sensible manner...
Why do you complain? Your very own proposal isn't particularly sensible. Applying a one-size-fits-all speed limit on road of various design standards does not improve road safety. Such general limits would just be ignored and would therefore be ineffective.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 12:15 PM   #4891
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Germans are not generally known for breaking the speedlimit.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 01:57 PM   #4892
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Because there are very high fines. This is main reason.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 03:04 PM   #4893
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Fines are generally not that high, compared to the Netherlands.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 03:19 PM   #4894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Why do you complain? Your very own proposal isn't particularly sensible. Applying a one-size-fits-all speed limit on road of various design standards does not improve road safety. Such general limits would just be ignored and would therefore be ineffective.
Where is my complaint? I think it's fair to to have a discussion about speed limits without dealing with various non-highway-related issues, that's all. Btw, I've never suggested a "one-size-fits-all" speed limit. Quite the opposite, actually, I'm in favour of speed limits that reflect the safety of the road. Thus, I suggest that a general 100 kph limit is too liberal on non-divided German Bundesstrassen. I'm not saying that a 100 kph limit is out of the question everywhere, though.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 04:24 PM   #4895
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Over quite a few decades, it has been continuously proven in practice that the German speciality of general limit absence is a working system.
Would not work in every country, but it works in Germany.

A lesser known fact is that the absence of a general speed limit is not only given on Autobahns, but -according to the law- on any extraurban road (regardless of status - Autobahn, Kraftfahrstraße or simple highway) that
- has at least two marked lanes in each direction, or
- has a real median separator (concrete barrier, strip of grass, etc)

Of course roads without posted speed limits that are neither Autobahn nor Kraftfahrstraße will be rare to find. I could not give any example of such a stretch.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 04:26 PM   #4896
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I prefer to have a higher blank speed limit so that road authorities can always make studies and put lower limits where applicable than the opposite (lower blank speed limits that need studies to be increased over).

When you have a lower blank speed limit that can be increased, it is easy to politicize these decisions, or to use the "oh, we don't get money to put signaling up" excuse. There is always money for putting signs indicating local lower speed limits if needed, however.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 09:12 PM   #4897
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I just published my first German video . It's B10 expressway east of Stuttgart.

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Old May 11th, 2013, 11:08 PM   #4898
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About 40 percent of all German Autobahns are limited.

Hesse cancelled speed limits on 80km in March 2010, e.g. on the winding A7 south of Kassel. They also advanced many speed limits on other sections. Here a short recent press release by Hesse traffic ministry: > click <.

Minister Rentsch said: "Wer also einen Zusammenhang zwischen der Aufhebung von Tempolimits auf Autobahnen und der Entwicklung der tödlichen Verkehrsunfälle konstruiert, ist ein intellektueller Geisterfahrer" ("Who constructs a relationship between the abolition of speed limits on Autobahns and the development of fatal traffic accidents, is an intellectual wrong-way driver.")

Speeding is the 4th-most cause for accidents. Speeding means not only, that the driver ignored a speed limit but he was too fast for the current situation.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 11:50 PM   #4899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
I just published my first German video .
Then, I published my 100th and 101st video in this thread.
Therefore, special episode: Autobahn at the end of the world.*
* according to a German forum


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Old May 12th, 2013, 05:49 PM   #4900
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Pics of some 2x2 expressways in southern Bavaria:
- B2 Donauwörth - Augsburg
- B2 Augsburg - Donauwörth (OSM)
- B17 Augsburg - Landsberg
- B17 Landsberg - Augsburg (OSM)
- B19 Kempten - Oberstdorf
- B19 Oberstdorf - Kempten (OSM)

Aerial video:
- A10 AD Schwanebeck (OSM; future AK Barnim)
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