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Old May 22nd, 2013, 10:13 AM   #4941
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Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post

Which German forum do you mean?
Autobahn-online. I used to post there in the mid-2000s.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 02:13 PM   #4942
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@MichiH: do you have any news on that project to close the gap in München (A-99)?
Last thing I have seen is that a few different alternatives are proposed along four main axis (a,b, c and d), from a tunnel very close to the city to a outer belt far out.

The decision making will take definately another few years as locals are lobbying for one or the other solution.



B2 would be my favourite.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 02:15 PM   #4943
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The A99 missing link is excluded from the Bundesverkehrswegeplan 2015, so it has virtually no chance to be constructed before 2030.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 02:48 PM   #4944
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Is it possible within the structure of the German federal government to build toll Autobahn (using bonds to finance its construction)?
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 02:54 PM   #4945
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Yes, although there are no general toll Autobahnen yet, there are several LKW-maut (truck toll) financed road widening projects. As stated before, the Wesertunnel (A281) in Bremen will be a toll tunnel. The Elbe Tunnel near Drochtersen (A20) will also be a toll tunnel, but the state of Schleswig-Holstein is not keen on constructing A20 west of A7 with their current government coalition.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 04:16 PM   #4946
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If I remember correctly, plans for the A8 "Albaufstieg" between Stuttgart and Ulm (map: click here) contained tolls.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 09:56 PM   #4947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Are there any Autobahnen in which the environmental sticker is required?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Is there any place where detailed maps of all the environmental zones can clearly be found in the same place?
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=4761

Select a "Bundesland" (e.g. "Nordrhein-Westfalen") on the left, start search (press "Suche starten").
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 10:02 PM   #4948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Autobahn-online. I used to post there in the mid-2000s.
67 posts between February 2005 and September 2009. Bad rate by contrast with SSC . I joined there in 2008.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 10:40 PM   #4949
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
That is a pity, as it leaves A-95 as lonely disconnected highway in the system (no direct connection to any other Autobahn).
Exactly!

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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I keep thinking if people living along this route don't complain about inter-city traffic
Well, there are no relevant complaints. The B2R is upgraded with many tunnels. Currently the construction is between A96 and B11 (southwest). It started in August 2009 and will be completed in November 2015 (2.8km; OSM; project page). The main traffic stream from A8-west to A8-east uses the A99 beltway and not the inner ring ("Mittlerer Ring").

Quote:
Originally Posted by kubam4a1 View Post
Why did they choose not to close the A99 gap? It would dramatically improve the driving conditions around the city, allowing to switch to other part of the ring in case of an accident or works.
There are three reasons: NIMBYs, NIMBYs and NIMBYs!

The upper class lives in the southern part of Munich and its suburbs. Also many politicans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The A99 missing link is excluded from the Bundesverkehrswegeplan 2015, so it has virtually no chance to be constructed before 2030.
It was also not included in the current BVWP 2003.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Des View Post
Last thing I have seen is that a few different alternatives are proposed along four main axis (a,b, c and d), from a tunnel very close to the city to a outer belt far out.

The decision making will take definately another few years as locals are lobbying for one or the other solution.



B2 would be my favourite.
Yes, there was a big discussion in 2008 and 2009. It was stopped in 2010. See project page (e.g. summary of the feasibility study).

The Ministry of the Interior put the southern A99 ring to the suggestion list for the BVWP 2015. But there was a forceful opposition. Also the Bavarian prime minister was part of it! The suggestion list was discussed by public participation ("Bürgerbeteiligung"/"Öffentlichkeitsbeteiligung").

I quote a press release (November 2012):
"IM Herrmann: 'Der Landtag hat im November 2010 beschlossen, dass die Option für dieses Projekt für die Zukunft bleiben soll. Wenn die kritische Bewertung durch viele Gemeinden und durch die Bevölkerung bestehen bleibt, wird die Staatsregierung den Südring auch nicht für die Fortschreibung des BVWP beim Bund zur Bewertung anmelden."

Translation:
Ministry of the Interior Herrmann: 'The Bavarian Parliament has decided in November 2010 to keep the A99 as a future option. The project will not be applied to the BVWP if the critical assessment by municipalities and the population will remain.'

The decision was already made to stop all further planning activities! The project will not be part of the future BVWP 2015 (> click <).

"Gestrichene Projekte: Aus dem Entwurf der Anmeldeliste wurden nachfolgende Projekte gestrichen:
- A 99, Südring München; Das Projekt wird im Ergebnis der Diskussion aus der Anmeldeliste gestrichen."

Translation: The A99 was canceled due to the result of the discussion.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 10:42 PM   #4950
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I think they can use all funding from the BVWP 2015 to construct projects that haven't been constructed in the BVWP 2003 and there'd still be a shortfall.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 10:47 PM   #4951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think they can use all funding from the BVWP 2015 to construct projects that haven't been constructed in the BVWP 2003 and there'd still be a shortfall.
I don't agree. They need almost all the money for funding all projects of the BVWP 2003 urgent demand. There will be no money to fund all projects of the BVWP 2003 further demand too. And the southern A99 ring was not at all part of the BVWP 2003!
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 11:22 PM   #4952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
No.



http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=4761

Select a "Bundesland" (e.g. "Nordrhein-Westfalen") on the left, start search (press "Suche starten").
Thanks, but... The Ruhrgebiet map shows a wide area indeed with lots of motorways going through it.

So even if motorways themselves are free, the gap between A52 and A2 is not? And there's no legal way to exit the A52, and even U-turns aren't allowed in the end as it continues as a dual carriage road?

It's ok with me now that I know, but I still wonder about those who don't...

On the other hand: is it easy to actually get the sticker, when visiting Germany as a tourist?
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 11:23 PM   #4953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphelion View Post
If I remember correctly, plans for the A8 "Albaufstieg" between Stuttgart and Ulm (map: click here) contained tolls.
The plan approval procedure was started in 2004, and it is still on hold due to missing funding. The Traffic Ministry announced in July 2012 that the expertise for funding (toll) will be finished in the 2nd half of 2012. The construction costs were estimated with 700 million € (source).

The mayor of a municipality near the Albaufstieg said in January: "The expertise regarding PPP was announced to be finished in late 2010... Never heard anything about it... A delegation visited Berlin in summer 2012. The only answer was: 'No new infomation'... (source).

Well, I guess this project will not be built until 2030 .
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 11:26 PM   #4954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
On the other hand: is it easy to actually get the sticker, when visiting Germany as a tourist?
It's ok with me now that I know, but I still wonder about those who don't...
Well, I don't care about that shit. I have a green sticker...

Here you will find informations about the german environment zones in English.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 11:44 PM   #4955
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I don't agree. They need almost all the money for funding all projects of the BVWP 2003 urgent demand. There will be no money to fund all projects of the BVWP 2003 further demand too. And the southern A99 ring was not at all part of the BVWP 2003!
That's not exactly what I meant. I meant to say that the BVWP 2003 had numerous projects that are still not under construction today. (especially the Weiterer Bedarf projects, but also some Vordringlicher Bedarf projects). I think you can fill the entire BVWP 2015 with those 2003 projects and still have a funding shortfall.

All the wish lists the states applied for the 2015 BVWP are unrealistic, there is funding for maybe a third of those projects.
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 09:53 PM   #4956
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
That's not exactly what I meant. I meant to say that the BVWP 2003 had numerous projects that are still not under construction today. (especially the Weiterer Bedarf projects, but also some Vordringlicher Bedarf projects). I think you can fill the entire BVWP 2015 with those 2003 projects and still have a funding shortfall.

All the wish lists the states applied for the 2015 BVWP are unrealistic, there is funding for maybe a third of those projects.
Well, I guess we meant the same .
But one thing is not "correct": The BVWP 2003 has two priorities: Urgent demand and further demand. Only the projects of the urgent demand were planned to be implemented until 2015. It was never intended to build projects of the further demand until 2015!

In my opinion the new BVWP 2015 urgent demand should approximatly contain the open BVWP 2003 urgent demand projects plus the projects of the BVWP 2003 further demand with planning rights. Most of the BVWP 2003 further demand projects should remain in the BVWP 2015 further demand.
But there's a rub in it: The old BVWP was made under different preconditions. The focus was on projects in the newly formed German states (I call it "Neufünfland"), but the next BVWP will have a different focus. Also a new traffic prediction will be made in 2014, which will affect the benefit-cost-relation which is one of the most important conditions for the prioity decision. This must be considered and will effect adjustments in addition to my "simple" plan above.

The wish lists of some states are really stupid! I hate that kind of politic ! It's just trying to fool the people that the projects would be implemented promptly, but you already know with common sense that it will unfortunately never come that!

But not every state drafted a wish list. Only some states did it. On the other hand we are only talking about the lists of the states. Only this projects will be considered for benefit-cost-analysis in 2014. I have no idea what will happen if the Federal Ministry would ascertain that projects which are not suggested by the states would be necessary to eliminate bottlenecks (result of traffic prediction). Will they add these projects to the BVWP although they are not part of the states' suggestion list?
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Old May 26th, 2013, 01:51 AM   #4957
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A861 from the Swiss border at Rheinfelden to its "junction" with A98 (a stretch of some 5 km of length).
May 2013

1. Right after the border


2.


3.


4.


5. The "junction" with A98 - currently the only possible direction, the A98 does not continue in the opposite direction
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Old May 26th, 2013, 01:10 PM   #4958
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5. The "junction" with A98 - currently the only possible direction, the A98 does not continue in the opposite direction
The 2.5km long section from the AD Hochrhein (A98/A861) to AS Rheinfelden-Karsau is u/c (OSM). Completion: 2017.

Last edited by MichiH; May 26th, 2013 at 01:15 PM.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 05:03 PM   #4959
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My video of B31, from A96 to Friedrichshafen. This road is mostly a grade-separated single carriageway road for motor vehicles.

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Old May 26th, 2013, 08:31 PM   #4960
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Quote:
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My video of B31, from A96 to Friedrichshafen. This road is mostly a grade-separated single carriageway road for motor vehicles.
Thanks .

AADT 2010 (source):
AS Weißensberg (A 96) - AS Lindau (Bodensee) (B 12) 17300 / 2284 (13.2%)
AS Lindau (Bodensee) (B 12) - AS Kressbronn am Bodensee 19200 / 2246 (11.7%)
AS Kressbronn am Bodensee (B 467) - AS Schlatt 21700 / 1888 (8.7%)
AS Schlatt - AS Eriskirch 24500 / 1936 (7.9%)
AS Eriskirch - Friedrichshafen-Ost (L 328A) 27800 / 1974 (7.1%)
Friedrichshafen-Ost (L 328A) - AS Friedrichshafen (B 30) 19800 / 1940 (9.8%)
AS Friedrichshafen (B 30) - Friedrichshafen, Riedleparkstraße/Maybackplatz (K 7739) 16100 / 2077 (12.9%)

The entire section is grade-separated but it has only 2 lanes (24km).

It is planned to upgrade a Bavarian section to 2+1 (2.9km; OSM). The entire Bavarian section is suggested for the BVWP 2015 (7.0km 2x2 widening; OSM).

There are also plans to upgrade the B31 on Baden-Württenberg side:
- 2+1 upgrade between Gottmannsbühl and B467-AS Kressbronn (1.6km; OSM)
- 2x2 upgrade from AS Eriskirchen (K7780) to AS Friedrichshafen-East (1.4km; OSM)
- 2x2 upgrade including hard shoulders from Friedrichshafen (K7739) – B30-AS (2.5km; OSM)

Well, no advance since at least 2 years.

The western Friedrichshafen bypass begins at the end of the video and will have 2x2 lanes with hard shoulders. It has a length of 7.1km and costs more than 100 million € (OSM). The plan approval order was passed in June 2008, complaints were rejected in 2010, but now Friedrichshafen wants a longer tunnel thus a additional plan approval procedure is necessary. Nonetheless groundbreaking is announced for mid of 2014 (project page).
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