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Old January 3rd, 2008, 05:33 PM   #481
ChrisZwolle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
The entire Ruhr-area? That must raise hybrid-sales in the area...
It's not very clear now. For instance, i don't know if Autobahnen are included or not, because they can run through city centers (Essen, Duisburg, Berlin).
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 08:12 PM   #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
It's not very clear now. For instance, i don't know if Autobahnen are included or not, because they can run through city centers (Essen, Duisburg, Berlin).
Just heard in the radio that autobahns and some bundesstrassen are not included.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 09:14 PM   #483
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I understand for Autobahnen but not for Bundestrassen because people who drive on the bundesstrassen usually want to enter the cities with the environment zone.
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Old January 4th, 2008, 01:11 PM   #484
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Not necessarly, Radi.
In urban areas like the Ruhr lots of Bundesstraßen are so called "Gelbe Autobahnen". Build like a Autobahn they are important intercity connections in the area.
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Old January 4th, 2008, 01:31 PM   #485
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6 more selfmade pics of Gelbe Autobahnen:

B49 near Koblenz


B9 near Koblenz



B256 near Neuwied


B40 near Frankfurt


Last edited by Patrick; January 4th, 2008 at 01:40 PM.
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Old January 4th, 2008, 04:34 PM   #486
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^ what are the speed limits on such roads?
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Old January 4th, 2008, 04:54 PM   #487
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130 km/hour.
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Old January 4th, 2008, 05:16 PM   #488
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So those roads, are Expressways
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Old January 4th, 2008, 05:53 PM   #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MateoW View Post
So those roads, are Expressways
Yes. A German Autobahn can differ from a narrow winding bad-exit urban expressway to a full Autobahn-look-a-like.

A Gelbe Autobahn is the German word for Expressway, Voie Expresse, Superstrada etc. Though most German Gelbe Autobahns are not with the same standard as a Voie Expresse, which are almost always at motorway-grade.


>>>><<<<

To get back to the pollution-sticker. Cars with a gasoline engine and a Catalytic converter younger than 1991 usually get a green sticker with a 4, like mine, which is the cleanest possible. Diesel engines are tougher, usually only very new diesel engines get a green sticker.

In my opinion, the government should lower taxes on these cleaner diesel cars, because they speed up the process of taking older cars with more polluting engines off the road.

But i doubt it, since the government only cares about the environment if they can make money out of it.
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Old January 4th, 2008, 06:30 PM   #490
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what is the situation with plaketten and foreign plate cars? where to get them?
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Old January 4th, 2008, 07:01 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by railway stick View Post
130 km/hour.
No. There are many Gelbe Autobahns without any speed limit.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 12:12 AM   #492
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To say it exactly: In Germany, there is no general speed limit for all roads that are build like Autobahnen (2x2 or better) unless signs say something else. Therefore, on a Gelbe Autobahn is the same situation than on a normal Autobahn.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 02:04 AM   #493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Yes. A German Autobahn can differ from a narrow winding bad-exit urban expressway to a full Autobahn-look-a-like.

A Gelbe Autobahn is the German word for Expressway, Voie Expresse, Superstrada etc. Though most German Gelbe Autobahns are not with the same standard as a Voie Expresse, which are almost always at motorway-grade.


>>>><<<<

To get back to the pollution-sticker. Cars with a gasoline engine and a Catalytic converter younger than 1991 usually get a green sticker with a 4, like mine, which is the cleanest possible. Diesel engines are tougher, usually only very new diesel engines get a green sticker.

In my opinion, the government should lower taxes on these cleaner diesel cars, because they speed up the process of taking older cars with more polluting engines off the road.

But i doubt it, since the government only cares about the environment if they can make money out of it.
I thought that (according to the official Berlin website about it) that when you lower the catagory of your diesel car there is a tax break of around 100 euros a year. That's what they claim anyway.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 01:34 PM   #494
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Yeah, but that's nothing. In the Netherlands, you pay 142% of the original price. So you have to pay 42% extra. If they lower that to like 10 or 20%, that might increase cleaner-car sales. I don't know how much this is in Germany, but it's about 180% in Denmark. That doesn't stimulate people to swap their older, more polluting car for a newer cleaner one.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 02:14 PM   #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Yeah, but that's nothing. In the Netherlands, you pay 142% of the original price. So you have to pay 42% extra. If they lower that to like 10 or 20%, that might increase cleaner-car sales. I don't know how much this is in Germany, but it's about 180% in Denmark. That doesn't stimulate people to swap their older, more polluting car for a newer cleaner one.
You can still retrofit an older car with a diesel particulate filter which ups the efficiency by one class (IE if it was class 3, it becomes class 2).

Details are here and here. Hope that helps to explain a bit.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 02:38 PM   #496
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Yeah, the so-called sootfilter. But i heard you have to replace them often and it is expensive. ( € 600 or US $ 880 in the Netherlands). You get a subsidy by the government, but that's only once.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 02:42 PM   #497
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Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Yeah, the so-called sootfilter. But i heard you have to replace them often and it is expensive. ( € 600 or US $ 880 in the Netherlands). You get a subsidy by the government, but that's only once.
Either way, as a cancer biologist I applaud the action to reduce the levels of particulate matter (which is extremely carcinogenic, you should see what they do to bacteria). At least in cities like Berlin transit is adaquate enough so that people shouldn't actually NEED to drive in. There are also exemptions as highlighted in that pamphlet for people who can't take public transport.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 02:48 PM   #498
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I totally agree with you. But i think in a way of a Diesel car owner. Would they replace that filter every year? I doubt it. Dutch Diesel cars have an annual soot-checkup, the socalled "roetmeting" or soot-measuring.

I happen to drive a fuel efficient gasoline car, so i drive the cleanest possible
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Old January 5th, 2008, 02:54 PM   #499
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Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
I totally agree with you. But i think in a way of a Diesel car owner. Would they replace that filter every year? I doubt it. Dutch Diesel cars have an annual soot-checkup, the socalled "roetmeting" or soot-measuring.

I happen to drive a fuel efficient gasoline car, so i drive the cleanest possible
In which case it would be up to the TÜV to check up on the filters and ensure that they're properly maintained. I believe German cars have to go in for checking every year, am I correct? Surely it can't be that hard to make this a mandatory thing on the checklist? I know that the German TÜV assessment is even more stringent than the British MOT (which in turn is WAY more stringent than the New Zealand WOF).

I too drive a relatively efficient petrol engine car so I'm on the cleaner side. No vehicular transit is perfectly clean of course and petrol has its own nasties attached, but even so - it's a step above high particulate diesel engines.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 02:59 PM   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
I totally agree with you. But i think in a way of a Diesel car owner. Would they replace that filter every year? I doubt it. Dutch Diesel cars have an annual soot-checkup, the socalled "roetmeting" or soot-measuring.

I happen to drive a fuel efficient gasoline car, so i drive the cleanest possible
How is that with Propane-Butane ?

I'm going on LPG ;D
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