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Old August 9th, 2013, 03:53 PM   #5341
Heico-M
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Quote:
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I've been seeing headlines about the EU doing something about roaming charges for years. Saw one this week about roaming charges within the Benelux only. (And even that seemed to be a "are they about to end?" than a "they're about to end!")
Intra-EU roaming charges have been widely regulated to the consumers' benefit. Mobile data is still a problem, but cell phone calls and SMS have become quite acceptable. No flat-rates as yet, though. But we are off topic.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 03:56 PM   #5342
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The user Mcarling is obvioulsly defending the Volvo driver all the time, ....
I would like to believe I would defend anyone being lynched on thin evidence, especially without an opportunity to defend himself.

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Originally Posted by Heico-M View Post
which makes it obvious that he drives just the same.
The standards of evidence here seem to be getting thinner and thinner. The fact is my car is electronically limited to 250 km/h but I've never driven it over 200 km/h.

I've driven over 2000 km in the last week, during which time I was overtaken by a double-articulated lorry/truck on a 1x2 road (DK61 in Poland). That lorry/truck literally ran the Alfa-Romeo in front of me off the road pulling back in to avoid another lorry/truck coming the other way. I had considered that it would have been unsafe for me to attempt to overtake the Alfa-Romeo.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 03:57 PM   #5343
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Not really. It more depends if a specific country has a treaty to exchange registration details with another country. France for example doesn't rat on its citizens, which is upsetting the Austrians who are desperately trying to pursue their monies owed by foreign traffic offenders.
We (Vienna) retaliate by putting wheel clamps on foreigners though. You get your car back once all your fines are paid.

Council Framework Decision 2009/299/JHA applies on France as well. Hell, they initiated this piece of legislation.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 04:02 PM   #5344
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The French themselves like to complain about the "millions of foreigners" driving through/in their country and evading paying traffic fines. They sometimes forget that the profit of being the no. 1 country for the number of tourists received is far higher than the "collateral damage" of their unpaid fines.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 04:08 PM   #5345
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Unfortunately, Switzerland is very co-operative with both Austria and Germany when it comes to handing out vehicle registrants' data (mutual agreements and Swiss attitude of not tolerating any traffic offense, even abroad). And there isn't even a language barrier.

Nevertheless, not all fines from Germany are sent over, since having the data does not mean they can force Swiss residents to pay (in fact they can't, there is no mutual agreement on that), so many authorities don't bother when it's a minor infraction only.
Why unfortunately? It should be the most normal thing on earth to pay ones fines for law violations abroad.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 05:54 PM   #5346
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It should be the most normal thing on earth to pay ones fines for law violations abroad.
When the person fined believes that she really did something wrong and believes that the amount of the fine is appropriate, then compliance is relatively high. When the person fined believes that she didn't really do anything wrong or that the fine is unduly high, then compliance is relatively low. Obviously, those perceptions vary across cultures and among individuals.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 05:57 PM   #5347
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Before it comes to paying one's fines, it should be the most normal thing
1) to set speed limits and other rules in a reasonable way,
2) to perform enforcement reasonably, i.e. motivated by augmentation of traffic safety and not just colletion of money (eg locations of speed traps - do we see them next to schools, hospitals,... , or at the least dangerous spot around?) "justified" by robot-like "law is law, limit applies also at 03.00 am if you are the only motorist around" slogans.

Germany is already doing better than the majority of European countries int this regard ... but there's room to improve!
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Old August 9th, 2013, 06:01 PM   #5348
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In the U.S. (at least certain states), there is such a thing as an illegal speed limit. I once came across legislation in California (at least I think it was California) saying that local governments (cities, towns, whatever) can set speed limits BUT they'll only be valid if certain criteria are met. (Someone - someone who'd been ticketed probably - would have to go to court and convince the judge that those criteria weren't met.) Criteria like they can't be using it mostly to raise revenue....

I think Maryland, one of the few states that permits local governments to use speed cameras, sets similar limits on how they're used.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 06:11 PM   #5349
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In the U.S. (at least certain states), there is such a thing as an illegal speed limit.
In the EU, Article 22 of European Regulation 562 of 2006 prohibits reduced speed limits at internal Schengen Area border crossings. However, the member states widely flaunt this law. Today, I crossed an internal Schengen Area border with speed limits on both sides of the border at 130 km/h and a brief illegal speed limit of 30 km/h at the border.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 06:24 PM   #5350
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Why unfortunately? It should be the most normal thing on earth to pay ones fines for law violations abroad.
Of course it's normal. But deep in our hearts we all like to escape the grilling if we can...
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Old August 9th, 2013, 06:26 PM   #5351
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I would like to believe I would defend anyone being lynched on thin evidence, especially without an opportunity to defend himself.

The standards of evidence here seem to be getting thinner and thinner.
The driver in question felt threatened and intimated. Otherwise he wouldn't have said so. Geez...
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Old August 11th, 2013, 02:50 PM   #5352
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Old August 11th, 2013, 04:53 PM   #5353
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^ Tolls for everyone, if you read closely. I support this because the many transit motorists should contribute to the financing of the infrastructure they benefit from.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 05:01 PM   #5354
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That is a myth made popular by politicians.

http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/adac-...autIrrtum.aspx

Wir zahlen im Ausland, aber die Ausländer lassen kein Geld bei uns.
Auch wenn es speziell in den Ferien anders wirkt: Tatsächlich stellen Ausländer übers Jahr nur 5,2 Prozent des Pkw-Verkehrs auf Autobahnen. Und da sie meist bei uns tanken, erbringen sie über die Mineralölsteuer bereits jetzt 195 Prozent der auf sie entfallenden Infrastrukturkosten.


Tolls are absolute nonsense if you consider German and foreign motorists pay € 53 billion in motoring-relatex taxes yet only 10 - 15% of that is reinvested in the road network. (The non-LKW maut road funding for Bundesfernstraßen is a despicable € 2.4 billion) The problem is not that motorists do not pay enough to build, expand and maintain the road network, the problem is politicians funneling all that funding away to non-road destinations. You need to start there.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 05:11 PM   #5355
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^ Tolls for everyone, if you read closely. I support this because the many transit motorists should contribute to the financing of the infrastructure they benefit from.
Bollocks, his idea would include a refund for Germans on the motor vehicle tax, therefore an indirect discrimination for other EU citizens. I can already tell you how the ECJ would rule on that.

Also love the myth of Germany being a transit country. Guess what; you are not. Only 5 % of Autobahn car traffic is being account on foreign cars.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 05:14 PM   #5356
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
That is a myth made popular by politicians.

http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/adac-...autIrrtum.aspx

Wir zahlen im Ausland, aber die Ausländer lassen kein Geld bei uns.
Auch wenn es speziell in den Ferien anders wirkt: Tatsächlich stellen Ausländer übers Jahr nur 5,2 Prozent des Pkw-Verkehrs auf Autobahnen. Und da sie meist bei uns tanken, erbringen sie über die Mineralölsteuer bereits jetzt 195 Prozent der auf sie entfallenden Infrastrukturkosten.


Tolls are absolute nonsense if you consider German and foreign motorists pay € 53 billion in motoring-relatex taxes yet only 10 - 15% of that is reinvested in the road network. (The non-LKW maut road funding for Bundesfernstraßen is a despicable € 2.4 billion) The problem is not that motorists do not pay enough to build, expand and maintain the road network, the problem is politicians funneling all that funding away to non-road destinations. You need to start there.
Also ever since the introduction of the LKW-Maut, the budget for the Infrastructure Ministry has not been increased at all. So this money is going directly into other stuff as well. Gotta love that hypocrisies.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 05:21 PM   #5357
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@ChrisZwolle: Thanks for the info. That changes the picture.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 05:30 PM   #5358
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Also ever since the introduction of the LKW-Maut, the budget for the Infrastructure Ministry has not been increased at all. So this money is going directly into other stuff as well. Gotta love that hypocrisies.
Yes indeed.

In fact, the budget has declined. When all of the LKW-maut revenue went into roads in 2011, the regular road budget has declined by the same amount, the end result is no additional money for roads, even though it was suggested that way.

In 2005, the regular road budget was € 4.4 billion, plus € 1.75 billion from LKW maut for a total of € 6.15 billion. In 2012, the regular road budget was € 2.44 billion, plus € 3.33 billion from LKW maut, for a total of € 5.78 billion.

Generally speaking, the road budget fluctuates every year, but there has been a downward trend in the past 8 years, while at the same time the need for large scale renovation and expansion has grown substantially.

All I hear are politicians saying "there will be 80% more trucks by 2025" but they do not provide any more money for the Bundesfernstraßen (that is the Bundesautobahn and Bundesstraße).

When comparing with the Netherlands (I can't tell for other countries), you see the road budget per 1 kilometer of road is € 112 000 in Germany and € 533 000 in the Netherlands. That is a huge difference and Germany has a much larger need for renovation of bridges and pavement than the Netherlands.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 05:48 PM   #5359
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Bollocks, his idea would include a refund for Germans on the motor vehicle tax, therefore an indirect discrimination for other EU citizens. I can already tell you how the ECJ would rule on that.
You're right, the ECJ would not allow refunds only to German citizens. However, the ECJ would allow refunds only to German residents or only for vehicles registered in Germany.

Anyway, the proposal is stupid and just populist politics.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 06:03 PM   #5360
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You're right, the ECJ would not allow refunds only to German citizens. However, the ECJ would allow refunds only to German residents or only for vehicles registered in Germany.

Anyway, the proposal is stupid and just populist politics.
No, he would not. That's a measure of equivalent effect since almost exclusively only foreigners would be affected by such toll.
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