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Old January 10th, 2008, 11:51 AM   #521
Patrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
What's the name of this letter "ß" and how do you pronounce it? I think it sounds like a "B" and if it does, what's the difference?
this letter is a combination of a old german long s (which looks like a f and is not longer in use nowadays) and a short s or z (even experts don't know that exactly). this new combined letter is called eszett = "sz" or scharfes s = sharp "s". it sounds like every "s" in english. it is the single "s" in german which sounds different, sounds a bit softer.

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Old January 10th, 2008, 03:54 PM   #522
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As far as I know the police Porsche 911 GT 3 is a study of a Porsche tuner, it's not used as a police car.
I don't know if one of the states uses Porsches for their police but I'm pretty sure some did in the past (70s and 80s).
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Old January 10th, 2008, 04:12 PM   #523
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The Dutch police also used to use Porsche police cars in the 80's.
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Old January 10th, 2008, 04:12 PM   #524
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That Porsche is Techart tuned and it was given to German police as a gift.(As far as I know)
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Old January 10th, 2008, 04:19 PM   #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
this letter is a combination of a old german long s (which looks like a f and is not longer in use nowadays) and a short s or z (even experts don't know that exactly). this new combined letter is called eszett = "sz" or scharfes s = sharp "s". it sounds like every "s" in english. it is the single "s" in german which sounds different, sounds a bit softer.

I think used to have something like that in English up to the 1700's or so, from old books that I've seen.
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Old January 10th, 2008, 08:17 PM   #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
I think used to have something like that in English up to the 1700's or so, from old books that I've seen.
Although off-topic from a thread on German autobahns, yes, that did exist in English until about 1800. In fact, the USA's Declaration of Independence and the original part of the USA's Constitution (the hand-written text that came out of the 1787 Constitution Convention), as well as pretty much every other document, leaflet, news report, etc, from that time used it. LOTS of 'f's where 's's are now used.

English and German are related languages.

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Old January 10th, 2008, 09:37 PM   #527
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oh, good to know, i have always thought that those 'f's / ß were/are typically and originally german
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Old January 11th, 2008, 07:10 PM   #528
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Quote:
LOTS of 'f's where 's's are now used.
Let's keep of topic for a moment (I don't know if you got it right or not, mgk920). The "f" letter the German ß derives from is NOT a f (although it kind of looks like) but a so called "langes s" (long s) which existed together with the "kurzes s" (short s) in old typos. The long s was used at the beginning or in the middle of a syllable, the short s at the end.

You can compare both "s" variations in these pictures:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../Wachstube.svg

The German wikipedia has lots of other examples: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langes_s


Also interesting is the fact that the "ß" is widely used only in Germany and - way less - in Austria, in Switzerland by contrast it was given up some 70 years ago and replaced by "ss".
To get back on topic, a German "Straße" is the same as a Swiss "Strasse"
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Old January 11th, 2008, 07:39 PM   #529
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And "ß" can't be used as a capital letter, only "SS".
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Old January 11th, 2008, 09:31 PM   #530
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Is there any word at all, beginning with SS?
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Old January 11th, 2008, 10:18 PM   #531
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Capital letter as big letter, not the first one.
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Old January 18th, 2008, 03:24 AM   #532
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Words starting with ß

The ligation wasn't realised for capital letters, so we still see "Sz":

die Szene (scene)
das Szepter (sceptre)

There's no word starting with ß anyway, because the adjective "szenisch" (scenic) which derived from "Szene" is still written with sz.

Many German-speaking people are unaware that there is no capital ß and simply use the minuscle ß:

STRAßE (wrong) instead of STRASSE (correct).

But now we are completely offtopic...
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 09:55 PM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen669 View Post
That sounds really dangerous.
here are the pics:

Parkplatz "Auf der Zeg" on A48 Koblenz - Dernbacher Dreieck
(the beginning emergency lane behind that bridge is only 1 km long until you reach Parkplatz "Nonnenberg", it turns into a usual deceleration lane, but after you passed the Parkplatz, you don't have a acceleration lane, just a stop sign like here)




Parkplatz "Kannenbäckerland" on A48 Dernbacher Dreieck - Koblenz

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Old January 22nd, 2008, 09:57 PM   #534
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Is there a speed limit there?
In my opinion, such exits should be closed, really unacceptable.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 10:09 PM   #535
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around Auf der Zeg, there is a limit of 100 because of the curve there. Around Nonnenberg and Kannenbäckerland, there are no limits.

but it seems to work, i am very often at Auf der Zeg because you have a nice view there, and I never had much trouble in getting out of there. there is not that much traffic there, around 50.000 vehicles/day. and I haven't heard or read anything of accidents in the local newspapers in the last years of course, it would be much much better if they'd widen these places.

Last edited by Patrick; January 22nd, 2008 at 10:19 PM.
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Old January 24th, 2008, 12:08 AM   #536
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It's weird that they've widen the motorway to 2x3 (eventually, in the past) and didn't fix those entrances/exits.
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Old January 24th, 2008, 12:48 AM   #537
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Old skool rest areas...should definitely keep them.
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Old January 24th, 2008, 01:16 AM   #538
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btw, here is the view from Auf der Zeg


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Old January 24th, 2008, 01:26 AM   #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
It's the same as ss

Gießen -> Giessen for instance.
sometimes your explenation doesn´t work, there are some words which can´t be written with ss instead of ß. you can write it but a German teacher or someone else mroe dealing with langauces will see it as wrong.
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Old January 24th, 2008, 01:33 AM   #540
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if the vocal in front of ss/ß is long spoken or if you have two vocals in a row, you have to take the ß. Like in Straße, Gießen, außen, Maß. if the vocal is short, put the double-s: Masse, Kuss, müssen, Trasse, Schloss.
In names, it can differ though, for example you find many people with the name "Weiss", but the color white is always "weiß"
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