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Old August 13th, 2013, 06:16 PM   #5401
Surel
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Yes, you are both right, however that doesn't change the fact, that there exists a legitimate reason for making foreigners pay, contrary to what KingNick says.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 06:17 PM   #5402
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Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
You reveal a rather short sighted attitude. What you seem to forget is that a road toll does more harm than good to the broader economy. It increases transport costs and drives off tourists and other businesses.
Certainly a toll on the A12 would just cause Polish drivers to divert to the route from Kustrin to Berlin instead of from Frankfurt (Oder) to Berlin.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 06:21 PM   #5403
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Foreign drivers are also tax payers in Germany. They pay fuel taxes (on average 195% of the cost they cause)
One of the reasons that truck toll was introduced. Trucks used to fill up in Luxembourg and make it all the way to Poland, Czech Rep. etc. without filling up in Germany.

That is of course not that easy for passenger cars.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 06:23 PM   #5404
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Originally Posted by Surel View Post

Yes, you are both right, however that doesn't change the fact, that there exists a legitimate reason for making foreigners pay, contrary to what KingNick says.
From a legal point of view (one that is highly unknown to you), no.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 07:09 PM   #5405
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So I am a foreign EU citizen in Germany, drive a car registered in Germany, work in Germany, pay a lot of taxes. Should I pay even more?
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Old August 13th, 2013, 07:31 PM   #5406
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Originally Posted by Heico-M View Post
That is of course not that easy for passenger cars.
Yep.

On a quick trip from the South to München a driver may never fill up, but it's a quite low usage of the German network.

Longer trips, especially through travels, require for sure at least one stop for gas.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 09:43 PM   #5407
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Yes, you are both right, however that doesn't change the fact, that there exists a legitimate reason for making foreigners pay, contrary to what KingNick says.
It is certainly legitimate. Yet, there is no way to make them all pay without causing severe collateral damages among German motorists. Weighing all possible options I see no better solution than the status quo. I'd rather let a few Austrian off the hook than plaster all windscreens with an ugly sticker.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 10:33 PM   #5408
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I can't believe people are considering stickers in this modern age. I so hate sticking and removing things on the windscreen. Countries like Hungary and Romania dropped stickers and are using an electronic system, where you buy the vignette (at gas station, online) and you're license plate is registered electronic and that's it...
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Old August 13th, 2013, 11:46 PM   #5409
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If I know the Germans well enough (which I should, being German myself), they will not make it as easy as a sticker on the windscreen. It will have to be an on-board-unit with a satellite link like the one the trucks have




Just kidding, ...
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Old August 14th, 2013, 01:06 AM   #5410
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Old August 14th, 2013, 09:00 AM   #5411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
So I am a foreign EU citizen in Germany, drive a car registered in Germany, work in Germany, pay a lot of taxes. Should I pay even more?
No, if your car is registered in Germany you get the same benefits like a native. In that aspect anyways.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 09:01 AM   #5412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heico-M View Post
If I know the Germans well enough (which I should, being German myself), they will not make it as easy as a sticker on the windscreen. It will have to be an on-board-unit with a satellite link like the one the trucks have




Just kidding, ...
Which means that I won't be able to drive on motorways anymore because I'm not getting a 500 EUR gadget to track my every movement.

Edit: And before you ask, I do not have a smart phone and my regular cell phone is almost always turned off except in emergency situations when I need to make a call.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:09 AM   #5413
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Originally Posted by Stahlsturm View Post
Which means that I won't be able to drive on motorways anymore because I'm not getting a 500 EUR gadget to track my every movement.

Edit: And before you ask, I do not have a smart phone and my regular cell phone is almost always turned off except in emergency situations when I need to make a call.
I see. You don't want the NSA to track you.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 01:28 PM   #5414
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Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Longer trips, especially through travels, require for sure at least one stop for gas.
Not with a diesel car.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 01:40 PM   #5415
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From a legal point of view (one that is highly unknown to you), no.
It would be quite easy to pass a law saying that anyone who wants to ride a road in Germany has to pay a road tax in Germany (absurd measure, but could be done).

What you don't want to accept is that the measure would be structured as such as to cancel the disproportion between the free riders and the payers.

Simple and practicle measure would be a electronic vignette, with same parameters as the current road tax. Road tax would be abolished. Voila.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 01:57 PM   #5416
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There is no road tax in Germany.
We have fuel tax and vehicle tax.

The plan could be to reduce the vehicle tax.
Then those who do not buy a vignette have an advantage.
But I think that this is the only way that is compatible with EU law.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 05:48 PM   #5417
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The Autobahn toll is just another populist demand of Seehofer in face of elections. He demands stuff like that on a nearly monthly basis.
Not really worth getting upset about it, especially as he doesn't seem to get much support anywhere.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 06:48 PM   #5418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heico-M View Post
There is no road tax in Germany.
We have fuel tax and vehicle tax.

The plan could be to reduce the vehicle tax.
Then those who do not buy a vignette have an advantage.
But I think that this is the only way that is compatible with EU law.
OK, road tax = vehicle tax. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_tax
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Old August 14th, 2013, 06:54 PM   #5419
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Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Not with a diesel car.
Indeed.

I travel quite often by car to NL, and if I keep my right foot under control and drive in fifth gear in the truck (right) lane - cruising at around 90, and I fill up here in Nowy Targ, I can reach Oldenzaal/Nijmegen/Venlo without ever seeing a petrol station along the way.

Of course, most of the time I fill up in Zgorzelec or Bolesławiec, and drive 140-150 all the way through, but then I can still make it into NL...

I drive a 2002 Renault Laguna, diesel, with a 60 litre tank.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 10:08 AM   #5420
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OK, road tax = vehicle tax. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_tax
Ah!
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