daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 22nd, 2013, 02:22 PM   #5641
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,403
Likes (Received): 2081

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Which are these?
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=5611

Click on the Autobahn number in the ranking to open the respective Autobahnatlas page which is showing the road standard (number of carriageways, number of lanes, kilometrage etcetera).
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 23rd, 2013, 10:00 AM   #5642
Attus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Rheinbach
Posts: 2,765
Likes (Received): 1038

Parties of the new German government decided: there will be a road toll for cars. German tax payers can decrease their road tax by this sum, so for them it does not mean any extra cost - actually it's a cost for foreign cars only.
Attus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 11:19 AM   #5643
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,731
Likes (Received): 766

And here we go...

[IMG]cdn.buzznet.com/assets/users13/brendonugeorgeross/default/stewie-griffin-large-prf-1158813608--large-msg-116197965129.jpg[/IMG]
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

Last edited by Wilhem275; October 23rd, 2013 at 11:38 AM. Reason: I don't understand why IMG tags don't work from mobile.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 11:20 AM   #5644
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19365

A poor plan, that will likely not result in more funding for roads.

According to Focus, the revenue from a vignette for foreign vehicles will be distributed to all traffic modes, road, rail, water. Furthermore, the LKW maut did not result in any more money for roads because they reduced the regular tax-funding by the same amount. It could be assumed this will happen with the vignette as well, possibly resulting in a situation that there will be zero tax money for roads, but all money comes from tolls.

Pay for two, get nothing.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 03:26 PM   #5645
Attus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Rheinbach
Posts: 2,765
Likes (Received): 1038

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A poor plan, that will likely not result in more funding for roads.
...
Pay for two, get nothing.
I think it is not about money for roads but about politics and populism.
Attus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 04:03 PM   #5646
Stahlsturm
Registered User
 
Stahlsturm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Regensburg
Posts: 183
Likes (Received): 36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
I think it is not about money for roads but about politics and populism.
A lot of Germans are pissed off that they have to pay almost everywhere and when they go to work the Autobahn is clogged up with foreign cars. Politicians listen to such things and CSU man Horst Seehofer most of all.

I doubt many Germans think past a simple wish for revenge in this matter.
__________________

cinxxx liked this post
Stahlsturm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 04:14 PM   #5647
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19365

Less than 5% of passenger car travel in Germany is by foreign cars. 95% therefore are Germans.

Vignettes are the ultimate way to let foreigners dish out as much money as possible, because they generally drive much less kilometers for the same amount of money German drivers will be compensated through road tax.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 07:58 PM   #5648
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,731
Likes (Received): 766

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlsturm View Post
A lot of Germans are pissed off that they have to pay almost everywhere
What they forget is that they're not the only ones who pay for motorways abroad, locals pay exactly like them...

I can't recall any example of toll road which is much cheaper for locals.

If Germans believe that users must pay to use the Autobahn, they're free to decide so. But I don't like these populistic discriminations...

EDIT: given the low number of cars from abroad, the whole thing may also backfire, with higher overall costs for the German taxpayer
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

Last edited by Wilhem275; October 23rd, 2013 at 08:12 PM.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 08:25 PM   #5649
SturmBeobachter
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Siemenstadt
Posts: 138
Likes (Received): 172

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlsturm View Post
A lot of Germans are pissed off that they have to pay almost everywhere and when they go to work the Autobahn is clogged up with foreign cars. Politicians listen to such things and CSU man Horst Seehofer most of all.

I doubt many Germans think past a simple wish for revenge in this matter.
I'm sorry but what you did say is a lie. NOWHERE in Germany are the roads "clogged up" with foreign cars. I went to Regensburg not a while ago, and did not see a SINGLE foreign car there. Only roadworks which are lasting forever... Also on the Autobahn A3 it took me about 4 hours to cover some 7 kilometers, and when we reached the place of supposed roadworks I have seen a lorry which was only going forward and backward in extremely slow manner for 50 meters, but all 4 lanes were blocked and signs for Umleitung were wrongly placed. Also, on A9 between Berlin and Leipzig someone should finnaly draw those white lines which divide lanes, because driving at the night is really risky there considering the road configuration.

As I did say before, what we don't pay in Germany for the Autobahns, we pay trough high oil prices.
SturmBeobachter no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 09:46 PM   #5650
cinxxx
I ♥ Timişoara
 
cinxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: München
Posts: 22,234
Likes (Received): 18298

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlsturm View Post
A lot of Germans are pissed off that they have to pay almost everywhere and when they go to work the Autobahn is clogged up with foreign cars. Politicians listen to such things and CSU man Horst Seehofer most of all.

I doubt many Germans think past a simple wish for revenge in this matter.
Deutsche sind schadenfroh
cinxxx no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 10:14 PM   #5651
Wolfgang16
Registered User
 
Wolfgang16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 71
Likes (Received): 49

Europe is teaching us that this is the common way to do it. Germany will be one of the last countries introducing a motorway toll.
Wolfgang16 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 10:18 PM   #5652
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19365

Tolls are not necessary from an economic point of view. Fuel taxes raise more than enough money to maintain and expand the road network. However, politicians continue to divert taxes on motoring to other destinations than roads. This will happen with the tolls as well.

There is no easier cash cow than motorists.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 10:28 PM   #5653
Attus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Rheinbach
Posts: 2,765
Likes (Received): 1038

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlsturm View Post
A lot of Germans are pissed off that they have to pay almost everywhere and when they go to work the Autobahn is clogged up with foreign cars. Politicians listen to such things and CSU man Horst Seehofer most of all.

I doubt many Germans think past a simple wish for revenge in this matter.
I agree.
Attus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 10:43 PM   #5654
Attus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Rheinbach
Posts: 2,765
Likes (Received): 1038

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Tolls are not necessary from an economic point of view. Fuel taxes raise more than enough money to maintain and expand the road network. However, politicians continue to divert taxes on motoring to other destinations than roads. This will happen with the tolls as well.

There is no easier cash cow than motorists.
Yes, but fuel taxes are paid by German car owners as well.

There is a joke in Hungary:
Three peasants, a French, an Austrian and a Hungarian, each have one cow. Suddenly all cows die. God sees that these people have lost all they had snd he decides he will help them.
At first God goes to the French one. He wishes if he could get another cow. Gid gives him one. The Austrian one wishes two cows - God is nice, gives him two cows.
Then God asks the Hungarian peasant. He wishes: "My neighbor's cow, too, shall die"

So, the situation in Bavaria is similar. "We pay toll in Austria, they, too shall pay in Bavaria". That's all.
Attus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2013, 11:01 PM   #5655
Wolfgang16
Registered User
 
Wolfgang16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 71
Likes (Received): 49

I agree that fuel taxes are the most fair and economic way to charge for driving if they are similar in the countries. But the idea behind the vignette is to charge foreigners more than the locals. You can't do that with fuel tax.
Wolfgang16 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 24th, 2013, 12:14 AM   #5656
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,794
Likes (Received): 613

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang16 View Post
I agree that fuel taxes are the most fair and economic way to charge for driving if they are similar in the countries. But the idea behind the vignette is to charge foreigners more than the locals. You can't do that with fuel tax.
Not the most integration-friendly approach.
MattiG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 24th, 2013, 12:50 AM   #5657
Wolfgang16
Registered User
 
Wolfgang16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 71
Likes (Received): 49

Yes, now we have a unified Europe, but when I plan a journey I have to take care about all the different toll systems. Recently I came to a toll station in France where payment by cash was no longer possible...
Wolfgang16 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 24th, 2013, 01:26 AM   #5658
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,731
Likes (Received): 766

What you are purposedly missing is that when you travel in Europe you have to pay tolls not as a foreigner but as a user, exactly as all other users, wherever they come from.

Where you ever discriminated for your origins, when asked to pay for something?
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 24th, 2013, 09:24 AM   #5659
Wolfgang16
Registered User
 
Wolfgang16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 71
Likes (Received): 49

I am aware of that and theoretically you are right, but user profiles for foreigners and locals are different. A foreigner often uses the motorway network for one day only, but in none of the vignette systems you can buy a day vignette for 365th of the price of a year vignette.

BTW: at Iranian toll stations I came through for free whenever I said that I am German.
Wolfgang16 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 24th, 2013, 11:53 AM   #5660
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlsturm View Post
A lot of Germans are pissed off that they have to pay almost everywhere and when they go to work the Autobahn is clogged up with foreign cars. Politicians listen to such things and CSU man Horst Seehofer most of all.

I doubt many Germans think past a simple wish for revenge in this matter.
It works both ways though. Germans are everywhere in Europe, and they use foreign infrastructure just as much as foreigners use theirs.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autobahn, baustelle, congestion, germany, highways, marode brücken, motorways, stau

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium