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Old November 20th, 2013, 01:44 PM   #5781
Stahlsturm
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The second stage of the B 15n between Neufarn and Ergoldsbach will apparently open on December 2nd. After that only 9 km remain and there will be a complete Autobahn (-like) connection between Regensburg and Landshut. YAY !!!

I read it today in the print issue of the "Mittelbayrische Zeitung" but can't find any online source.
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Old November 20th, 2013, 10:24 PM   #5782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlsturm View Post
I read it today in the print issue of the "Mittelbayrische Zeitung" but can't find any online source.
http://www.br.de/nachrichten/oberpfa...ember-100.html (9th November 2013)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=5747 (10th November 2013)

You should read the SSC thread about German Autobahns .
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Old November 21st, 2013, 09:42 AM   #5783
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Originally Posted by Ushtari View Post
First of all, Germany is the father of Autobahns
And actually the first road being called as "Autobahn" was the current A555 between Cologne/Köln and Bonn.
Which is strange beacause those days (1932) that road loked like that:

It doesn't like like something we call an Autobahn nowadays.
NB: The current A115 is older but it was not called as Autobahn but as Automobil-Verkehrs- und Übungs-Straße (AVUS).

Nowadays it is clear: an Autobahn/motorway is a road which is signed by this way:

Perhaps our North American friends can't find the proper word just because their controlled access highways are not si strictly (and simply) separated from other roads? I don't know. I've never been to the Americas.
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Old November 21st, 2013, 12:00 PM   #5784
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Germany, Austerity’s Champion, Faces Some Big Repair Bills

(...)

Germany was once known for its superfast autobahns, efficient industry and ability to rally public resources for big projects, like integration with the former East Germany. But more recently, it has been forced to confront a somewhat uncharacteristic problem: Its infrastructure — roads, bridges, train tracks, waterways and the like — is aging in a way that experts say could undermine its economic growth for years to come.

(...)

A government-appointed commission recently concluded that it needed to spend 7.2 billion euros a year, or $9.7 billion, for the next 15 years — roughly 70 percent more than it spends now — just to get existing infrastructure back into shape.

(...)

From 1991 to 2012, Germany reduced its budget for maintenance by 20 percent, according to Gernot Sieg, a transportation expert and professor at the University of Muenster. It now spends 1.5 percent of its gross domestic product on maintenance, compared with a European average of 2.5 percent. About 46 percent of Germany’s bridges, 41 percent of its streets and 20 percent of its highways need repair, Dr. Sieg said.

(...)

Read the entire article on nytimes.com
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Old November 21st, 2013, 04:43 PM   #5785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
And actually the first road being called as "Autobahn" was the current A555 between Cologne/Köln and Bonn.
Which is strange beacause those days (1932) that road loked like that:

It doesn't like like something we call an Autobahn nowadays.
NB: The current A115 is older but it was not called as Autobahn but as Automobil-Verkehrs- und Übungs-Straße (AVUS).
Such kind of roads (undivided, for motorized traffic only) were built in Italy before 1932 (the first was the Autostrada dei Laghi in 1924) and also in the USA (New York?) there was something similar. So it has no sense saying that Germany built its firts motorway in 1932, as there were already similar roads in other countries (and Autobahn, autoroute, motorway, autocesta, avtocesta, autopista, autosnelweg, auto-estrada, autoput,... are all calques of autostrada).

We need to know what was the first road in the world with the following features:
- divided
- at least 2x2
- grade-separated
- motorized traffic only
This one would be the first motorway in the world. I think it's either in Germany or in the States.
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Old November 21st, 2013, 05:16 PM   #5786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
21th November: B1 Aerzen bypass (4.3km; partial 2+1; 14.8 million €; plan approval procedure: August 2006 to December 2007; u/c since May 2009; OSM)
Things are seriously wrong in Germany, it takes 1 year longer to build a 4 km two-lane bypass of Aerzen than it took to construct the Millau Viaduct in France.

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Old November 21st, 2013, 06:14 PM   #5787
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Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Perhaps our North American friends can't find the proper word just because their controlled access highways are not si strictly (and simply) separated from other roads? I don't know. I've never been to the Americas.
One of your North American friends answered this question, but said answer has been erased.

Don't know why I bothered.
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Old November 21st, 2013, 08:12 PM   #5788
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A 94, when it will be completed ?
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Old November 21st, 2013, 09:16 PM   #5789
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2030+x
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Old November 21st, 2013, 09:35 PM   #5790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
- 21th November: B1 Aerzen bypass (4.3km; partial 2+1; 14.8 million €; plan approval procedure: August 2006 to December 2007; u/c since May 2009; OSM)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Things are seriously wrong in Germany, it takes 1 year longer to build a 4 km two-lane bypass of Aerzen than it took to construct the Millau Viaduct in France.
But the Aerzen bypass was finally opened today, see press release. About 13,500 used the B1 through road until now.

I think the construction progress is not so bad in Germany in comparison with the planning progress. Two examples I read today(!):
- The beginning of the plan approval procedure for the B474 Waltrop bypass (2x2; 8.0km; northern A45 extension; OSM) is postponed by one year. Groundbreaking 2019+x. The planning has already started in the 1970th. The first plan approval order was passed in 1991 but challenged and canceled. 80% of the Waltrop citizens voted for the bypass in 2008. But there is also advance: The costs have increased from 64 to 75 million € within the last 10 month (source).
- The beginning of the plan approval procedure for the B107 eastern Chemnitz bypass (2x2; ~10km; A4-S236; 100 million €; OSM) is postponed by some years. The documents are out-dated (source).

I am reading things like that in German media almost every day .
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 03:07 AM   #5791
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Originally Posted by Attus View Post
It doesn't like like something we call an Autobahn nowadays.
Of course not - but back in the day, it was still sort of a technological miracle. Which was also admired by Soviet soldiers arriving in Germany during WW2, some of whom then being sent to labour camps for the crime of "praising life abroad".

It is also said Germany, in 1945, had a higher-standard infrastructure than most Eastern Bloc countries in 1989 ...
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 08:57 AM   #5792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
2030+x
You are being rather optimistic I'm afraid. I fear the proper answer would be "not in our lifetime"
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 09:03 AM   #5793
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Quote:
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It is also said Germany, in 1945, had a higher-standard infrastructure than most Eastern Bloc countries in 1989 ...
In 1939, probably. In 1945 there wasn't much left thanks to the combined efforts of RAF and USAF.
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 12:47 PM   #5794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Things are seriously wrong in Germany, it takes 1 year longer to build a 4 km two-lane bypass of Aerzen than it took to construct the Millau Viaduct in France.
Regarding infrastructure, Germany is becoming more and more the sick man of Europe, which is quite ironic considering the country's automotive heritage and culture. Let's hope politicians acknowledge change is needed.
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 12:47 PM   #5795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlsturm View Post
In 1939, probably. In 1945 there wasn't much left thanks to the combined efforts of RAF and USAF.
Oh sorry, was that wrong?
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 02:06 PM   #5796
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Oh sorry, was that wrong?
Well, it was war and terrible things happen in war. To me (born 67) all this is history to learn from and not to repeat it but other than that, just history.
Now, to keep this Autobahn related, if you keep this strictly technical and don't consider the deaths involved, I'm pretty sure the forced removal of large parts of infrastructure enabled post 1949 Germany to build things better and more streamlined instead of being stuck with old infrastructure and having to work with what has grown over the years. Wiping the slate clean must be a planner's dream (and a commoner's nightmare).
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 03:23 PM   #5797
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Don't forget that the Germany army retreating trashed the Autobahn, etc to slow down the Soviets and Allies.

I'd go with 1943, rather than '45 or '39.

Also, I'm not sure that Moldova or Ukraine are even on the '43 level now.
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 03:51 PM   #5798
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Oh sorry, was that wrong?
I too thought that 1945 was the wrong year to choose for Germany's peak infrastructure, simply because so much of it had been destroyed by then. No one said anything about wrongness. Would have said '39 but I didn't think of early-wartime construction.

Have a Schnapps; you'll feel better.
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 07:57 PM   #5799
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Don't forget that the Germany army retreating trashed the Autobahn, etc to slow down the Soviets and Allies.
Yes, and historically there are two strange facts about this. German army mostly trashed bridges to slow down allied forces but is is common sense nowadays, that german military logistic went for nearly all transport via railway. Autobahn could not be used by tanks, (ok, say used one time only). So strategically viewed the Autobahn was an error.

Another interesting fact about that Autobahn created much jobs is, that they found no one working there. Many people were killed and even if they could have used machines they considered hand-work in order to decrease the unemploymenrt-rate. Later political prisoners died for the Autobahn. But it has never been a job-machine as it was told in the propaganda.

Kind regards
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 08:03 PM   #5800
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Exactly
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