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Old November 24th, 2013, 03:33 PM   #5821
MichiH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxlalixX View Post
In badenwürttemberg, its not so bad there, there are lots days were there is no traffic on most of the autobahns,
Yes, the Autobahns around Stuttgart are only heavy congested during rush hours. But there are not so many Autobahns . The main problem is on B and L roads.

Nevertheless, according to http://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/trafficindex/ Stuttgart is the most congested German city/region (2013):

1. Moscow
2. Istanbul
3. Warsaw
4. Palermo
5. Marseille
6. Rome
7. Paris
8. Stockholm
9. Brussels
10. Lyon
11. Nice
12. Stuttgart
13. Hamburg
14. London
15. Berlin

Quote:
my father works at stuttgart airport, he said that it is bad to drive at rusch hour, but thats only the one big city in badenwürtemberg...
There are daily congestions on A81 and A8 in the rush hours.

AADT 2010 on A8 b/n Leonberg and Wendlingen (2x3): 98,600 to 147,600.
AADT 2010 on A81 b/n Heilbronn and Leonberg (2x3): 91,100 to 129,300.
AADT 2010 on A81 b/n AK Stuttgart and Böblingen (2x2): 79,100 to 125,200.

The truck portion is also very high on the west-east Autobahns A6 and A8. The A6 has only some 2x3 sections, the vast bulk is still 2x2.

Quote:
From freiburg to frankfurt...thas autobahn is not bad at all...i have never seen much traffic there...
The congestions b/n Offenburg and Rastatt should be over b/c the A5 widening is almost completed. The A5 b/n Karlsruhe and Mannheim/Heidelberg is very congested and the upgrade priority is very high (I wish the A8/A81 would have a higher priority).

AADT 2010 on A5 b/n Hemsbach and Walldorf (2x2): 63,800 to 84,300.
AADT 2010 on A5 b/n Walldorf and AD Karlsruhe (2x3): 99,700 to 140,100.
AADT 2010 on A5 b/n Karlsruhe and Baden-Baden (2x3): 62,800 to 84,800.
AADT 2010 on A5 b/n Baden-Baden and Freiburg (2x2): 52,300 to 69,200.

The A7 b/n Würzburg and Ulm and the A81 b/n Würzburg and Heilbronn are very vacant. But all other Autobahns in Baden-Württemberg are very busy.

Quote:
And the ones in eastern germany...those are bad, mainly becaus of the ddr...
Almost all former DDR Autobahns have been renewed. The problems with bad road surfaces are on B and L roads.
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Old November 24th, 2013, 08:10 PM   #5822
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Hi, im interested in old autobahn plans and i have found this map with shows autobahn network.

http://www.autobahnatlas-online.de/P...arteOhneAS.pdf

what i wonder is, what is the grey road at bottom right which only have a question mark?
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Old November 24th, 2013, 09:39 PM   #5823
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@Autobahnftw

you found this also?

http://www.autobahnatlas-online.de/S...nlegende_e.pdf
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Old November 24th, 2013, 10:12 PM   #5824
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Grey are all dismissed plans.
The one at the bottom would be A98, of which parts were buildt: A98 at Hochrhein valley and around Singen/Hohentwiel, B31n as a stripped down bypass for Überlingen and the Friedrichshafen-Lindau shore, B12n/A980 between Weitnau and Kempten/Dreieck Allgäu, the junction with A95. East of Marktoberdorf, B472 did get/gets an upgrate good enough for the traffic (bypasses of Marktoberdorf (approved) an Schongau/Peiting (buildt), the road between both towns is mostly 2+1).
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Old November 24th, 2013, 10:24 PM   #5825
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I think he meant the planned motorway through the Berchtesgaden area, that would connect Salzburg with Innsbruck (and not via Rosenheim).
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Old November 25th, 2013, 02:06 AM   #5826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yep, from what I've seen the worst potholes are temporarily repaired with asphalt. (probably to avoid legal claims) But it results in roads like this:

[img]http://cdu-rlp.de/infrastruktur/images/L114.jpg[img]
L114 Wehr, RLP


[img]http://www.rhein-zeitung.de/cms_media/module_img/156/78379_1_popup_78379_1_org_stromberg_4.jpg[img]
L306, Bendorf, RLP
This is better than nothing, rather have this ''messy'' road than deep potholes or rut... This mess doesn't damage your car as much.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 04:19 AM   #5827
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It's not very comfortable driving though, and on roads like these, in Germany, they usually slap very slow speed limits on them. Of course you never noticed that, seeing that you are 1: a self-imposed Germany expert and 2: you ignore all speed limits anyway.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 01:34 PM   #5828
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Still better then these though



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Old November 25th, 2013, 02:52 PM   #5829
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B29 Schwäbisch Gmünd

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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
The B29 Schwäbisch Gmünd bypass (OSM) will be opened in late November 2013. This last 2.6km long section was started in August 2006 (plan approval order was passed in March 1997) and contains a 2.230km long tunnel.
The B29 bypass was opened today. The road has a length of 4.1km (my former information was wrong) and has costs of 280 million €. The tunnel is 2-laned but the feeders are 4-laned. The AADT on the B29 through road is 35,000 vehicles per day, the future AADT in the tunnel is predicted with 19,800 vehicles per day (to avoid the need of a 2nd tube which is required if the predicted AADT is 20,000 or higher). The construction time was 87 month (groundbreaking August 2006).

Mr. Hermann, Baden-Württemberg Minister of Transport (Green Party), said that the tunnel will become a bootleneck if the mobility behavior will not change. People have to use trains and busses or should make car-pools.
An anecdote: Mr. Hermann was sticking in a congestion about three weeks ago. The police let him pass the tunnel. The citizens were not amused.

Sources: 1, 2 and 3.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 03:22 PM   #5830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Mr. Hermann, Baden-Württemberg Minister of Transport (Green Party), said that the tunnel will become a bottleneck if the mobility behavior will not change.
He apparently forgot that politicians are there to serve the people, not vice versa.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 03:51 PM   #5831
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Old November 25th, 2013, 03:54 PM   #5832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
He apparently forgot that politicians are there to serve the people, not vice versa.
He's Green Party. They think that they have a mandate to force people towards what the party thinks is better behaviour for the people. Given the history of German parties who knew best it never ceases to amaze me how they keep getting elected.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 04:06 PM   #5833
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Originally Posted by Stahlsturm View Post
He's Green Party. They think that they have a mandate to force people towards what the party thinks is better behaviour for the people. Given the history of German parties who knew best it never ceases to amaze me how they keep getting elected.
But the substandard planning was caused by the conservative CDU Party which led Baden-Württemberg for about 60 years. Due to there is also an emergency tunnel the costs for a 2nd tube would not be much higher than 280 million €. Building a 2nd tube in a couple of years will cost a lot of extra money!

I've no idea about the follow-up of the EU rule that all tunnels with an AADT > 20,000 vehicles per day must have 2 tubes. What will happen if the AADT in the Gmünder Einhorntunnel will be higher than 20,000, is there an obligation to build a 2nd tube within x years or is it not mandatory to upgrade the tunnel with a 2nd tube (is the rule only a recommendation for existing tunnels)?
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Old November 25th, 2013, 04:12 PM   #5834
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The EU directive says that tunnels must have two tubes if the AADT exceeds 20,000 vehicles per day. However, it does not mandate 4 lanes, it could be one lane per tube as well.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 04:27 PM   #5835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlsturm View Post
He's Green Party. They think that they have a mandate to force people towards what the party thinks is better behaviour for the people. Given the history of German parties who knew best it never ceases to amaze me how they keep getting elected.
German politics is, obviously, none of my business, but does anyone see the irony in a Green Party leader being stuck in traffic? (I'm not saying that's why he should have been let out of it, more "why was he on the road at all?")
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Old November 25th, 2013, 04:53 PM   #5836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The EU directive says that tunnels must have two tubes if the AADT exceeds 20,000 vehicles per day. However, it does not mandate 4 lanes, it could be one lane per tube as well.
Thanks . I know that 2 tubes does not mean 4 lanes. But does the directive mandate to build a 2nd tubes within x years?
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Old November 25th, 2013, 04:55 PM   #5837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
German politics is, obviously, none of my business, but does anyone see the irony in a Green Party leader being stuck in traffic? (I'm not saying that's why he should have been let out of it, more "why was he on the road at all?")
I've also seen that irony. That's why I posted it (in addition b/c someone - the district president from FDP Party - helped him to find a way out) .
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Old November 25th, 2013, 05:20 PM   #5838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Thanks . I know that 2 tubes does not mean 4 lanes. But does the directive mandate to build a 2nd tubes within x years?
The exact text is here (in German if you wish):
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...04L0054:de:NOT

Technically it only applies to tunnels part of the Trans-European Network (the Netherlands decided to let it apply to every tunnel).

2.1.2:

Wenn bei Tunneln, die sich in der Planungsphase befinden, eine 15-Jahres-Prognose des Verkehrsaufkommens zeigt, dass das Verkehrsaufkommen 10 000 Fahrzeuge je Tag und Fahrstreifen übersteigen wird, muss auf jeden Fall zu dem Zeitpunkt, an dem dieser Wert überschritten wird, ein Doppelröhrentunnel mit Richtungsverkehr vorhanden sein.

In any case, where, for tunnels at the design stage, a 15-year forecast shows that the traffic volume will exceed 10 000 vehicles per day per lane, a twin-tube tunnel with
unidirectional traffic shall be in place at the time when this value will be exceeded.
The 19800 vpd value seems like a manipulated traffic model to not having to comply with these standards. Otherwise it would be a huge coincidence, and I don't believe in that.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 05:34 PM   #5839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christophorus View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
Grey are all dismissed plans.
The one at the bottom would be A98, of which parts were buildt: A98 at Hochrhein valley and around Singen/Hohentwiel, B31n as a stripped down bypass for Überlingen and the Friedrichshafen-Lindau shore, B12n/A980 between Weitnau and Kempten/Dreieck Allgäu, the junction with A95. East of Marktoberdorf, B472 did get/gets an upgrate good enough for the traffic (bypasses of Marktoberdorf (approved) an Schongau/Peiting (buildt), the road between both towns is mostly 2+1).
Hey, sorry for confusing, i know what that grey means dismissed, and the thing i am talking about the is the road in the bottom right corner that doesnt have number like A98, it have only a question mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think he meant the planned motorway through the Berchtesgaden area, that would connect Salzburg with Innsbruck (and not via Rosenheim).
That makes sense, do you have more information about it?
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Old November 25th, 2013, 05:45 PM   #5840
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Originally Posted by Autobahnftw View Post
Hey, sorry for confusing, i know what that grey means dismissed, and the thing i am talking about the is the road in the bottom right corner that doesnt have number like A98, it have only a question mark
That makes sense, do you have more information about it?
I've never seen that former planned Autobahn on that map. I've already contacted the owner of autobahnatlas-online.de and I am still waiting for response.
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