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Old June 30th, 2014, 08:46 PM   #6561
ChrisZwolle
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A57 Neuss

The widened A57 at Neuss opened to traffic with six lanes yesterday.

This article has a lot of historical background:
http://www.rp-online.de/nrw/staedte/...-aid-1.4347394
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Old June 30th, 2014, 09:38 PM   #6562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
As I understand it, lowering the tax and introducing the vignette is the only legal route, unless Germany required all vehicles on German roads to pay the road tax.

But I don't think it will happen. Merkel was against the vignette in the 2013 election campaign, and the SPD won't cry if the CSU don't get their pet policy into law. The experts are coming out against it, and they might lose significant income from the car tax if they have to reduce the cost by 100 Euro/year.

Including it in the car tax won't happen, as it would discriminate against EU citizens if the cost of the tax is lower than the cost of the vignette.
One should not forget that the CSU will lose a significant number of votes at the next election(s).

One scenario: The vignette will come, for everyone, of course. The car tax will remain as it is. If anyone complains, they'll shrug their shoulders and say "it is the EU's fault" (very popular at the moment).
Merkels promise will be broken, CDU and CSU voted down at the federal election 2017 and we'll get a socialist chancellor in a coalition with the Greens and the neo-communists.

I just hope that Merkel is man enough to stop this before it is too late.
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Old June 30th, 2014, 09:43 PM   #6563
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As I understand, some cars have an annual road tax of less than € 100 per year. So by compensating them for the vignette, it would actually cost money.
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Old June 30th, 2014, 09:49 PM   #6564
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Especially eco-friendly cars have taxes < 100 €. The politicians want to grant a sales discount on eco-friendly cars...........
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Old June 30th, 2014, 10:00 PM   #6565
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I pay 58 euros per year for example for my Seat Leon 5F
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Old June 30th, 2014, 10:14 PM   #6566
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I paid more than that for my last car every month.
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Old June 30th, 2014, 10:30 PM   #6567
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My car has a 2.0 liter Diesel engine. I have to pay about 300 €. In addition, I have to pay mineral oil taxes. It's 0.4704 € per liter Diesel, containing 0.154 € per liter eco-tax. Of course, the VAT is on the price including these taxes. If you buy about 100 liter Diesel, you have to pay about 58 € for taxes.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzinp...in_Deutschland
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Old June 30th, 2014, 10:35 PM   #6568
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Diesel cars have outrageous road taxes in the Netherlands, most people pay over € 1,200 per year, unless the car is very light (but diesel cars are often heavier).
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Old June 30th, 2014, 10:58 PM   #6569
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That´s insane!

I pay for my Audi A3 1.9 diesel 293€uro a year. My parents have two heavy SUVs diesel and with high taxes like in Holland they would have to drive VW Polos or Smarts instead.
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Old July 1st, 2014, 02:27 PM   #6570
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It is insane. My parents just got a new C-max 2.0 diesel and pay up to 1200 per year. Still very cheap compared to the S-max 2.2 diesel they had before this one, I think it almost reached 1500 in yearly taxes.
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Old July 1st, 2014, 03:02 PM   #6571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heico-M View Post
One should not forget that the CSU will lose a significant number of votes at the next election(s).
CSU already lost votes at euro elections
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Old July 1st, 2014, 10:51 PM   #6572
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A8 Albaufstieg

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AS Mühlhausen – west of AS Merklingen ("Albaufstieg"; OSM; ~8km; realignment; plan approval procedure stopped due to open funding concept)
The plan approval procedure began in 2004. It was stopped by the Federal Ministry of Transport due to a open funding concept. They tried to find an interested party who wants to operate the 7.5km long toll section (with a toll station). It was unsuccessful.

It is a very important request of the Green (!) Minister of Transport from Baden-Württemberg, Mr. Hermann, to get a 2x3 Autobahn b/n Karlsruhe and Munich. He asked multiple times to restart the plan approval procedure. Finally, the Federal Ministry of Transport agreed. They instructed the state's ministry to restart the planning procedure. Mr. Hermann is very happy now. The traffic analysis and the eco-studies were completed in 2004 but they are out-dated now and must be renewed. This will last at minimum one year. The Minister also wants to take the chance to involve the citizens. He is going to push on the project to start the project as one of the first new BVWP 2015 projects. See press release. It also provides a map of the new route.

A today's news article quotes Mr. Hermann, that the construction should begin in 2018. The entire A8 b/n Karlsruhe and Munich (that means also the Pforzheim section which is also in Baden-Württemberg) will be completed in 2025. Costs: 500 million € plus X. The 80 year old bridges have reached the end of their useful life.

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Old July 1st, 2014, 10:55 PM   #6573
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That makes you wonder if it's better to go ahead with 2x4 lanes for the Albaufstieg itself.
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Old July 1st, 2014, 11:28 PM   #6574
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The AADT was only 65,000 vehicles per day in 2010 (15.8% truck share). But I am sure, that Bavaria would built a 4th lane on the climbing carriageway.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 08:50 AM   #6575
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If it was going to be 2x3 all the way from Karlsruhe to Munich, there'd be some hefty engineering going on at the Swabische Alb...
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 04:41 PM   #6576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ni3lS View Post
It is insane. My parents just got a new C-max 2.0 diesel and pay up to 1200 per year. Still very cheap compared to the S-max 2.2 diesel they had before this one, I think it almost reached 1500 in yearly taxes.
I paid... nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heico-m
I just hope that Merkel is man enough to stop this before it is too late.
The lack of any real political will suggests that it won't happen.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 11:30 PM   #6577
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Well, at least until she states Mr Dobrindt her "fullest trust" (vollstes Vertrauen), that would be the ultimate alarm sign.

Previous receivers of Merkel's trust were Karl Theodor zu Guttenberg, Norbert Röttgen and not least President Wulff.

But seriously: The car toll has many legal obstacles to face, I don't believe it will come short term.

And of course, the vignette is way too simple and expresses a lack of justice.
Those who drive less will pay more per km. So we need a km-based payment, satellite based, with an obligatory, built-in on-board-unit.
We are Germans, after all, we do things thoroughly and exact.

Oh, and wait: we need more social justice. The toll must be depending on the driver's income.

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Old July 3rd, 2014, 12:20 AM   #6578
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That´s the German way!
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 01:18 AM   #6579
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But then, NSA will hack positions of all the Mantafahrer in real-time and post them to Google
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 07:02 PM   #6580
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Quote:
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If it was going to be 2x3 all the way from Karlsruhe to Munich, there'd be some hefty engineering going on at the Swabische Alb...
The press release is about the Schwäbische Alb . Look at the map, it contains two tunnel and two viaducts. The plans are out-dated, I guess the 7.5km section will cost more than 1 billion € (Minster Hermann said 500 million € plus X).
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