daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 12th, 2014, 12:12 PM   #6701
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,400
Likes (Received): 2079

A26 Stade - Hamburg

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
The carriageway towards Stade on Section 2.1 (4.6km) will be opened for cars in December 2014. It will only be possible to drive by car etcetera (but not by truck) b/n i/c Jork and i/c Horneburg. After completion of section 2.2 from i/c Jork to i/c Buxtehude (4.5km) and section 3 b/n i/c Buxtehude and i/c Neu Wulmstorf (4.1km) in December 2020, section 2.1 will be entirely opened for traffic too. The works on section 2.1 and 2.2 have been started in summer 2006. The works on section 3 have been started in September 2013.
The A26 section 2.1 b/n i/c Horneburg and i/c Jork will be opened in late November 2014. Maybe it will even be possible to open both carriageways (source).
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 12th, 2014, 12:19 PM   #6702
Eulanthe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,228
Likes (Received): 409

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Actually the toll was the idea of CSU, and this party exits only in Bavaria. So people that don't live in bavaria (approx. 85% of German population) did not vote in favor of any toll. Additionally, CSU had approx. 50% in Bavaria, which is quite impressive but in this case it means that only 8% of the German population voted for CSU (more precisely it was 8.1% of the votes in all-German level).
Which is why I think we'll see some compromise that might allow Bavaria to go ahead with some local tolling agreements.

For what it's worth, if I knew a friendly professor of law, I'd love to challenge the way that short term visitors are penalised when buying vignettes in Europe.
Eulanthe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2014, 12:31 PM   #6703
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,400
Likes (Received): 2079

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
Which is why I think we'll see some compromise that might allow Bavaria to go ahead with some local tolling agreements.
Nope!
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2014, 12:36 PM   #6704
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
For what it's worth, if I knew a friendly professor of law, I'd love to challenge the way that short term visitors are penalised when buying vignettes in Europe.
I think that would be an uphill case. There is lower hanging fruit. However, if you want to proceed, write to the EU ombudsman and complain. If they get enough complaints and if they think they have a strong enough case, the Commission may take up the idea.
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2014, 12:38 PM   #6705
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Wahl des geringeren Übels (voting the lower evil).
Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.
__________________

Wilhem275 liked this post
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2014, 01:11 PM   #6706
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,400
Likes (Received): 2079

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.
What's the solution, don't vote? Vote a protest party like the anti EU party AfD? Found an own party?

What would you vote if you would like the CDU politics but you live in Bavaria?
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2014, 01:20 PM   #6707
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,885
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Actually the toll was the idea of CSU, and this party exits only in Bavaria. So people that don't live in bavaria (approx. 85% of German population) did not vote in favor of any toll. Additionally, CSU had approx. 50% in Bavaria, which is quite impressive but in this case it means that only 8% of the German population voted for CSU (more precisely it was 8.1% of the votes in all-German level).
58% voted for the CSU in Berchtesgadener Land. That's a majority for this party and indirectly for road tolls as well.
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2014, 01:31 PM   #6708
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
What's the solution, don't vote? Vote a protest party like the anti EU party AfD? Found an own party?

What would you vote if you would like the CDU politics but you live in Bavaria?
Every party and every candidate I have ever voted for (in more than 30 years of elections) was not expected to win and none did win. I have no regrets. Elections do more than just determine winners. They are the most serious of opinion polls, because other opinion polls are merely stated preferences while elections are revealed preferences. The vote results of small parties often have a profound effect on future policies, as larger parties move in the political direction of smaller parties with rising support in an attempt to co-opt their voters.
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2014, 05:36 PM   #6709
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,525
Likes (Received): 21227

I think Germany builds and replaces infrastructure at a slightly low overall rate of completion. The problem is not the total amount of road building, but the fact it is spread too thin among many projects simultaneously.

This means you have a high number of small projects being active at any given time.

While this might seem "fair", the end result is that more money is spent, because there are some fixed costs associated with each project/site regardless of level of activity, hence the faster you complete them, the lower these costs/km built will be.

Some countries like Netherlands adopt a different approach: not many simultaneous projects, and some with start dates placed in the future, several years from now. However, once projects are started, construction progress fast, and all the hassles and costs of an active building site are more limited (congestion, overhead, detour routes and its traffic impact, supervision, security, outreach).

Still, Germany is on a better position than UK, where there is even less construction activity.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!

Last edited by Suburbanist; July 12th, 2014 at 05:41 PM.
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2014, 05:40 PM   #6710
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,400
Likes (Received): 2079

True.
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2014, 06:36 PM   #6711
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I think Germany builds and replaces infrastructure at a slightly low overall rate of completion. The problem is not the total amount of road building, but the fact it is spread too thin among many projects simultaneously.

This means you have a high number of small projects being active at any given time.

While this might seem "fair", the end result is that more money is spent, because there are some fixed costs associated with each project/site regardless of level of activity, hence the faster you complete them, the lower these costs/km built will be.

Some countries like Netherlands adopt a different approach: not many simultaneous projects, and some with start dates placed in the future, several years from now. However, once projects are started, construction progress fast, and all the hassles and costs of an active building site are more limited (congestion, overhead, detour routes and its traffic impact, supervision, security, outreach).

Still, Germany is on a better position than UK, where there is even less construction activity.
Reason is that even though the UK are not building new motorways anymore, the quality of what is there is fine, and high scale maintenance is being carried out at night, whereas in Germany a large part of the autobahn network is in shambles, and they need to get everything in gear to make the network acceptable again.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2014, 07:27 PM   #6712
bavarian urbanist
Verdens Beste
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ratisbona
Posts: 523
Likes (Received): 649

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Voting the CSU does not mean to favor a car toll!

Wahl des geringeren Übels (voting the lower evil).
Not voting for CSU doesn't mean being against a road toll
I mean, honestly, I'm all for a toll system, but if we get one, it should only apply to Autobahns and be license-plate based(ie: your plate is scanned and a bill is sent to the owner of the car), just like the norwegians do. That stuff that Dobrindt proposes is pure manure though.
__________________
There is no god, especially not Allah!
bavarian urbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2014, 08:45 PM   #6713
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,400
Likes (Received): 2079

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarian urbanist View Post
Not voting for CSU doesn't mean being against a road toll
No, not at all! Politics is not only road toll, there are many other matters. The toll bullshit is just populism. IIRC the car toll was already defined in the 2009 coalition agreement (not as detailed is in 2013).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarian urbanist View Post
I mean, honestly, I'm all for a toll system, but if we get one, it should only apply to Autobahns
I don't agree. Commuter would avoid Autobahns and would drive through the villages. That's crap! I dislike any kind of toll but if there is a toll, it should be on all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarian urbanist View Post
and be license-plate based(ie: your plate is scanned and a bill is sent to the owner of the car), just like the norwegians do. That stuff that Dobrindt proposes is pure manure though.
Agree!
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2014, 11:07 PM   #6714
Heico-M
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Flensburg, DE
Posts: 288
Likes (Received): 115

[sarcasm]
Licence plate based? Waah! The state will be able to create a movement profile!!
[/sarcasm]

Soon the Germans will not tell anyone their name any more, for the sake of data protection.
__________________

Wilhem275 liked this post
Heico-M no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2014, 12:51 AM   #6715
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,371
Likes (Received): 746

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
What's the solution, don't vote? Vote a protest party like the anti EU party AfD? Found an own party?

What would you vote if you would like the CDU politics but you live in Bavaria?
FDP?
__________________

mcarling, Heico-M, Shenkey, JuergenSchT liked this post
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2014, 02:33 AM   #6716
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,731
Likes (Received): 766

In fact I don't get why FDP is disappearing from the German political scene. The only explanation I have is that we're going through some very irrational times and FDP proposes politics which require a bit more thinking than the other parties. But I probably miss some important elements in the story.

Anyway, I always badly missed a lib-dem party in my country, since it may have a more pragmatic approach to these issues of public facilities management (less likely to sacrifice them to the commie vs. lobbying match).
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2014, 10:31 AM   #6717
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,400
Likes (Received): 2079

Meanwhile, the FDP got to be a "fun party".
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2014, 01:25 PM   #6718
Attus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Rheinbach
Posts: 2,762
Likes (Received): 1038

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I don't agree. Commuter would avoid Autobahns and would drive through the villages. That's crap! I dislike any kind of toll but if there is a toll, it should be on all.
German cars will pay the toll for sure so German car owners will not be able to avoid paying the toll. I have no information about cross country commuters but I suppose there are not so many of them.
__________________

Surel liked this post
Attus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2014, 01:32 PM   #6719
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,400
Likes (Received): 2079

It's a toll for all, not for foreigners. It would not be fair if all Germans "have to pay toll" also if they never use an Autobahn.
__________________

bavarian urbanist liked this post
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2014, 01:08 PM   #6720
bavarian urbanist
Verdens Beste
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ratisbona
Posts: 523
Likes (Received): 649

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I don't agree. Commuter would avoid Autobahns and would drive through the villages. That's crap! I dislike any kind of toll but if there is a toll, it should be on all.
No, a toll should only be on the autobahns. Commuters could easily do the math and chose to take the train instead.(on most stretches, the train is already just as fast as the car, keeping in mind that a daily commuter won't be able to drive faster than 140km/h after a long day in the office)
__________________
There is no god, especially not Allah!
bavarian urbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autobahn, baustelle, congestion, germany, highways, marode brücken, motorways, stau

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium