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Old August 3rd, 2014, 01:35 PM   #6861
MichiH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heico-M View Post
Come on now, the width which is in the papers must be incl. mirrors (Width over all - Breite über alles). And truly, many cars are over 2,0m.
It isn't. German media reported it 3 years ago.

http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/u...-a-795662.html
http://www.autobild.de/artikel/veren...e-1806710.html
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 01:42 PM   #6862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Are there many of them?
I've checked the Federal budget 2014 document today (> click <; 33MB).

It contains some PPP projects (that mean they have spent money until 2013 or they will spend money in 2014):
- A4 Hesse/Thuringia border - Gotha (completed)
- A9 Lederhose - Thuringia/Bavaria border (u/c until November 2014)
- A5 Malsch - Offenburg (completed)
- A6 Wiesloch - Weinsberg
- A8 Ulm - Augsburg (u/c until September 2015)
- A8 Augsburg - Munich (completed)
- A7 Bordesholm - Hamburg (will be started soon)
- A1 Hamburg - Bremen (completed)
- A7 Salzgitter - Göttingen
- A1 Osnabrück - Münster
- A61 Worms - Rhineland-Palatinate/Baden-Württemberg border
- A94 Forstinning - Marktl
- A44 North Rhine-Westphalia/Hesse border - Kassel
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 01:52 PM   #6863
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Do they usually get completed faster
Yes, PPP projects are completed much faster. They are usually used for 2x3 widening. There is a long way until the construction begins but the construction time is usually 4 years for all sections. In general, a 'simple' 2x3 widening takes about 2-3 years per section. The A8 Ulm-Augsburg has six sections....

There are also cons. The opponents of the A94 think (that the chosen route is totaly wrong and) that PPP is very bad. Expensive, and it lasts too long until groundbreaking. If the PPP procedure would not be necessary, the works could start immediately (if the money would be available ).
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 01:56 PM   #6864
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An expertise (by experts of the Bundestag) about the car toll plan has been (inofficially) published. Conclusion: The current plan is discriminating foreigners! (big surprise )

http://www.bild.de/geld/wirtschaft/a...3944.bild.html
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 02:01 PM   #6865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
- A1 Osnabrück - Münster
- A61 Worms - Rhineland-Palatinate/Baden-Württemberg border
- A44 North Rhine-Westphalia/Hesse border - Kassel
What are these projects exactly? Just a long-term maintenance contract, or also a widening project? I noticed A44 has gotten some upgrades over the past few years, with new pavement and new median barriers.
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 02:14 PM   #6866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What are these projects exactly? Just a long-term maintenance contract, or also a widening project? I noticed A44 has gotten some upgrades over the past few years, with new pavement and new median barriers.
A1 Osnabrück - Münster:
2x3 widening of 40km (urgent demand), 4 sections, the plan approval procedures are ongoing for 3 sections, the 4th plan approval procedure should begin 'soon' (or has already been started).

A61 Worms - state's border:
2x3 widening (urgent demand), the plan approval procedure is still ongoing (17.3km but the section begins at the AK Mutterstadt). I've no idea why it should be PPP.

A44 Diemelstadt - Kassel:
~50km (2x3 widening is further demand), please check this article (January 2012) and this one regarding the replacement of the viaduct (January 2014).
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 02:27 PM   #6867
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I noticed a tendency to have PPP projects where the concession holder gets a longer stretch under maintenance than the expanded segment alone. With the A94 PPP, they also got a fairly long stretch of existing A94 under concession.
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 02:34 PM   #6868
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Yep.
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 03:13 PM   #6869
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A62 widening

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
September 2014: A62 2nd carriageway b/n south of Weselberg to Schwarzbach viaduct (3.6km; OSM; u/c since September 2013)
The A62 widening seems to be completed in August 2014.

A document on the page of the construcion company says (until) 30th August 2014.
A news article (21st June 2014) said 'late July/early August'.
A news article (19th July 2014) said 'asphalt coating ongoing'
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 03:17 PM   #6870
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It's a PPP project. It comprises 6 sections. 3 sections will be 2x3 in service until late September 2014, the remaining 3 sections will be completed until September 2015 .
So it's all 2x3 now and 3 sections will remain 2x3 until late September 2014 and the remaining 3 sections will remain 2x3 until September 2015. And after that? What will they be after they are no longer 2x3? Will they be 2x4 after September 2014 and September 2015?
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 03:19 PM   #6871
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I think by 'until' he means 'by' or 'from'. 2x3 lanes by September 2014 and 2x3 lanes by September 2015.

Sechs Fahrstreifen ab September 2014.
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 03:21 PM   #6872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think by 'until' he means 'by' or 'from'. 2x3 lanes by September 2014 and 2x3 lanes by September 2015.
Oh. I asked if he meant by. In the context, until has the opposite meaning, which is why I was confused. Until means before (strictly, the entire period of time between now and the specified time), but it seems he meant after.
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 03:27 PM   #6873
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No, it's currently 2x2 w/o hard shoulders! The upgrade is ongoing. The AADT is only b/n 50,000 and 60,000 vehicles/day (quite less), AADT source.
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 03:30 PM   #6874
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Thanks for correcting .

Yes, the road is u/c until September, the road will have 2x3 lanes by late September.
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 08:16 PM   #6875
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What are the chances of a tunnel under the Bondensee near Konstanz? It would connect with Meesrburg and B31a (an expressway).

Is there any project to connect Ravensburg and Friedrichshafen with a 1+1 expressway?

What about connecting Ravensburg with A96 in Wangen im Algäu?
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 09:39 PM   #6876
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What are the chances of a tunnel under the Bondensee near Konstanz? It would connect with Meesrburg and B31a (an expressway).
At maximum, 0.0%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Is there any project to connect Ravensburg and Friedrichshafen with a 1+1 expressway?
No, only 2x2. The first section is u/c (3.4km, 2013-2018), the 2nd one is in an earlier planning stage (12.6km).

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What about connecting Ravensburg with A96 in Wangen im Algäu?
Nope, there already the B32 (but no upgrades planned).
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 10:14 PM   #6877
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I passed several 2.0m baustelle-lanes in an Astra, actually always made sure to stay links and use it since the right was just too damn slow. I found it narrow but didn't have any stress despite uneven road surface and spooky low speed limit (I stayed higher...)

here in Canada I think the narrowest work-zone lane they will give you is 3.3 m instead of typical 3.66 m (12 ft) but sometimes they feel quite narrow. (maybe the sign says 3.3 and it's really 2.3...)

But in the German situation I often wonder why they make such narrow works zones and for what. On this side of ocean often they will pave a large shoulder quickly on one carriageway and pass 4 lanes on that and rebuild the other side. After it is done, you still get nice shoulder
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 11:59 PM   #6878
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Because in Germany is everything about space? I guess it has to do with the 82 million people on 0.36 million qkm vs. the 35 million Canadian people on almost 10 million qkm.
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Old August 4th, 2014, 11:39 AM   #6879
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Quote:
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What I found dangerous is to go at (the signed) 60 kph in the right lane when the truck behind me didn't agree with that. Resulting in extremely aggressive tailgating, honking and headlight flashing. On the other hand side, speed controls have increased considerably, especially in roadwork areas.
Yes, it's quite uncomfortable. And unfortunately it happens often...
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Old August 4th, 2014, 03:14 PM   #6880
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In some cases, where there isn't space for minimum-width lanes for barely comfortable driving, side-by-side, of cars in one lanes and trucks in the other, I think it would be better to have one normal-width lane with a higher speed limit instead of 1.5 lanes where trucks accelerate on the right making it very uncomfortable to take your car on the left lane parallel to them.
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