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Old March 21st, 2008, 03:40 PM   #701
flierfy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Something i find more remarkable on German traffic jams, is that if in the case of one closed lane, Germans don't seem to know how to merge, it looks like they just drive to the end, stop, and try to merge. This creates a huge delay in short traffic jams, i once spend one hour in a 1km traffic jam on a sunday in Düsseldorf.
Congestions are caused by the lack of downstream capacity not by the manner of driving. Merge at the end of a lane. That's the rule and that's how it should be done. That way both lanes that merge into one are equally slow.
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Old March 21st, 2008, 03:44 PM   #702
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No but they can be worsened. Do you call it normal that a 1 kilometer traffic jam (approximatly 400 - 500 cars) need 1 hour to merge? Another problem was that people thought they are smart taking the parallel lanes (it was at interchange Düsseldorf-Süd), worsening the problem, instead from 3 to 1, it goes from 4 to 1.
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Old March 21st, 2008, 05:10 PM   #703
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Then it took an hour for you. Others seem to have gone through a bit quicker. That's the problem when everyone merges where he/she chooses to do so. That fastens one lane at the expense of all other lanes.
To level this inequality drivers are taught to merge at the end of their lane.
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Old March 21st, 2008, 05:27 PM   #704
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Then it took an hour for you. Others seem to have gone through a bit quicker.
How do you think this was possible? stopped traffic is stopped traffic... I saw it multiple times, even 100m before the final merging point, traffic was still completely stopped for minutes.
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Old March 21st, 2008, 08:21 PM   #705
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How do you think this was possible? stopped traffic is stopped traffic... I saw it multiple times, even 100m before the final merging point, traffic was still completely stopped for minutes.
When you tell me that some drivers took the C/D lane I have to assume that they were quicker. At least a bit. Anyway, things like this happen. Don't let the congestions bother you.
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Old March 21st, 2008, 09:04 PM   #706
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They think it gets quicker, because the first section of the parallel lane does move faster than the through lanes, but you also have to merge back onto the main lanes.

In the Netherlands, it's illegal to do this via a rest stop.
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Old March 21st, 2008, 10:53 PM   #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
They think it gets quicker, because the first section of the parallel lane does move faster than the through lanes, but you also have to merge back onto the main lanes.

In the Netherlands, it's illegal to do this via a rest stop.
I experienced the same as you did. A couple months ago I drove from Frankfurt to Cologne. I saw a traffic jam ahead, slowed down and was standing still for at least 15 minutes. It was three lanes with an exit to an reststop on the right. Most Audi's, BMW's and Mercedes's all drove over the emergency lane onto the reststop exit. I stayed in the left lane. After 10 minutes 3 fire trucks and a couple police cars drove between the left and middle lane towards what appaered to be a crash. After half an hour I finally got to the crashsite that was near the onramp of the reststop. The traffic that came from or drove past the reststop moved almost freely past the crash but the 3 lanes on the highway struggled to merge to the most right lane. And it took a lot longer then necessary because they didn't merge well.
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Old March 21st, 2008, 11:24 PM   #708
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In Germany it's even worse, because there are no emergency lanes at the merging lanes. So if there are people waiting to merge in, the road is blocked for emergency vehicles.
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Old March 21st, 2008, 11:56 PM   #709
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In Germany it's even worse, because there are no emergency lanes at the merging lanes.
If you mean a hard shoulder by emergency lane then you're just partly right. There are a lot of junctions where the shoulder continuous around the auxiliary lane.

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So if there are people waiting to merge in, the road is blocked for emergency vehicles.
Emergency vehicles almost never use hard shoulders in Germany. They use an emergency lane created by vehicles on the furthermost left lane and the lane next to its right.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 01:26 AM   #710
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Yeah, I never got this, why's that?

Chris, I disagree with you about merging ASAP. In ideal world yes, but in reality many people go all the way to the end of the lane, so what else are you left with than do the same? I've been "blackmailed" too many times, so now I always go to the very end. Sometimes I'm even the only one atm to go so far, so people are angry with me (), but I don't care, it's the only reasonable thing to do.

Thanks for the photos, Patrick! Green signs?
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 02:31 PM   #711
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Yeah, I never got this, why's that?
That is the only reliable way to provide space for emergency vehicles on dualled roads. I couldn't think of anything better.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 02:52 PM   #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Then it took an hour for you. Others seem to have gone through a bit quicker. That's the problem when everyone merges where he/she chooses to do so. That fastens one lane at the expense of all other lanes.
To level this inequality drivers are taught to merge at the end of their lane.

True, I think its even the law in Germany. And it makes most sense IMO.
If people try to merge earlier I always use the Lichthupe to teach them a lesson.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 04:08 PM   #713
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I'm sorry it is a bit offtopic, but in the dutch autosnelwegenforum is a small discussion going on about some new autobahns in east Germany. There are for instance plans for a German A18, going from Cottbus, along the Polish border, to Görlitz and Zittau. I also saw a planned motorway between Bautzen and Zittau on some map. Furthermore, it seemed to me as if a new motorway is planned between Hamburg and Berlin. That sounds strange to me, because there is already the BAB 24. Does anyone know what numbers these highways will get, and when they are supposed to be finished?

To make it easier, the map (Chris is the one who uploaded it, it isn't mine):
[IMG]http://i13.************/53ka7pg.png[/IMG]
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 06:12 PM   #714
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I think, that most of "gray motorways" are currently not needed and they are there only as a far future plan.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 06:49 PM   #715
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I thought german network is perfect, or nearly perfect, but I see they want to perfectise it more
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 06:58 PM   #716
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In the former DDR are only a few motorways yet....
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 07:02 PM   #717
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Any schedule for completion of the München ring?
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 07:06 PM   #718
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Quote:
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I thought german network is perfect, or nearly perfect, but I see they want to perfectise it more
The network is pretty good indeed, although there are a few missing links, like the A1 Blankenheim - Daun, A33 Osnabrück - Bielefeld, A44 in the Ruhr and Kassel - Eisenach etc.

Though i hope they will focus more on the western and southern part of Germany, especially in road widening, because most attention was gone to Eastern Germany the last decade.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 07:13 PM   #719
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I LOVE THE SONG AUTOBAHN BY KRAFTWERK !!!! ONE OF THE GREASTEST SONG EVER !!
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 08:55 PM   #720
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the grey lines are cancelled plannings. most of them there were from a plan in the 70s, called the "Leber-Plan", that every german has only like 20 minutes to drive to the next autobahn.

about the grey line between Berlin and Hamburg: That was an alternative plan for the route Berlin-Hamburg, but finally it was the A24 which has been built.
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