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Old December 22nd, 2014, 04:43 PM   #7361
ChrisZwolle
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That would mean they have to pull you over to check that...
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 05:20 PM   #7362
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German police love pulling foreign vehicles over for no reason. Especially in Bavaria, so it'd just give them another excuse.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 05:32 PM   #7363
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Pulling people over to check them increases the enforcement cost considerably. It takes much more time than just check a license plate in a database while driving. The enforcement and system cost is already projected at some 25-30% of revenue.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 05:38 PM   #7364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy5 View Post
That suggests that 19% of car use on German roads must be foreign.

I've never noticed that.

Or it suggests they want visitors to pay more than a fair share.
That is a good observation. It is usually quoted that approximately 5% of all PKW-kilometers are from foreign cars, but they expect them to pay 19% of the gross revenue. That means foreigners pay 4 times their fair share compared to Germans.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 05:42 PM   #7365
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A Moroccan/French colleague from work has a word describing everything in Germany:
Abzocke
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 06:20 PM   #7366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
That is a good observation. It is usually quoted that approximately 5% of all PKW-kilometers are from foreign cars, but they expect them to pay 19% of the gross revenue. That means foreigners pay 4 times their fair share compared to Germans.
it is always the same, somebody who will introduce a new system tells perfekt about benefits, in this case:
-> high income, from non germans counts with this plan
-> low operating costs
the reality will be other values, lower income, higher operating costs

principal non germans pay more, because not everybody pays a year toll, shorter ones are effective expensiver

but what is to say, some car types have a very low toll, everybody will be crazy not to buy for a full year automatically

a further point will be, i live near this border, at the moment i use sometimes the german motorway, the way is longer but easy to drive, if i have to pay then i dont use and i take the shorter distance trough small villages

and at last, they will need a lot of signs, on every exit they have to install a toll sign, somebody calculated this costs ?
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 06:22 PM   #7367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
A Moroccan/French colleague from work has a word describing everything in Germany:
Abzocke
Which means....?
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 06:25 PM   #7368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
German police love pulling foreign vehicles over for no reason. Especially in Bavaria, so it'd just give them another excuse.
It's not controlled by police, it's controlled by BAG (Federal Office for Goods Transport).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
That is a good observation. It is usually quoted that approximately 5% of all PKW-kilometers are from foreign cars, but they expect them to pay 19% of the gross revenue. That means foreigners pay 4 times their fair share compared to Germans.
So what, it's the same in all countries with vignette system.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 06:26 PM   #7369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Which means....?
rip-off
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 06:30 PM   #7370
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@Christian_AT: your totally wrong with all. You should read up on the topic.....
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 06:34 PM   #7371
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Quote:
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So what, it's the same in all countries with vignette system.
That doesn't mean it should be considered decent practice. Especially if your minister tries to convince you how 'fair' this system would be. It's not fair at all.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 06:39 PM   #7372
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Agree. It's unfair like all others.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 06:41 PM   #7373
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The problem is that a fair share payment of foreigners will mean the enforcement and system cost are higher than the net income. A fair share would lower the toll revenue by 75% to some € 175 million, while operating costs are in the range of € 200 million.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 06:49 PM   #7374
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Vignette is never fair.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 06:59 PM   #7375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
That doesn't mean it should be considered decent practice. Especially if your minister tries to convince you how 'fair' this system would be. It's not fair at all.
Of course it is not fair. A "toll for foreigners" may in no circumstances be fair.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 07:07 PM   #7376
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The very idea of the suggestion was to rip-off foreigners (well, rather "take their fair share in infrastructure costs").
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 06:51 AM   #7377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
It's not controlled by police, it's controlled by BAG (Federal Office for Goods Transport).



.
I am talking about the police doing identity checks and vehicle searches. The BAG are interested in goods vehicles only.
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 02:55 PM   #7378
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Be it toll, be it vignette, every system of of trying to get extra money from car drivers is stupid and complete bullshit. States (especially Germany) are already milking everybody for everything with unnecessary taxes - yet they are not willing to reserve at least a decent share of this robbed money for those purposes (especially defense, education & infrastructure) that legitimate raising taxes at all.
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 04:40 PM   #7379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
I am talking about the police doing identity checks and vehicle searches. The BAG are interested in goods vehicles only.
Of course, but police will not control vignette. BAG will control vignette!
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 04:47 PM   #7380
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I assume the police will do vignette checks and pass the information on to the BAG who will then fine you if needed? That's what the police do when you are doing too many hours in a goods vehicle anyway. But why would the BAG do vignette checks anyway? It has nothing to do with goods transportation...
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