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Old April 19th, 2015, 06:24 PM   #7781
MichiH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [atomic] View Post
I fail to see the purpose of this road
does Bad Neuenahr have much through-traffic that A573 and 171 can't route to A61?
A61 is "far away", a hugh detour. AADT on B266 b/n A571 and A573 is 12,000 to 18,000 vehicles/day. It's also planned to build a new 4-laned B266 bypass of Bad Bodendorf. AADT is 15,000 to 18,000 vehicles per day up to B9.
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Old April 19th, 2015, 07:11 PM   #7782
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
A61 is "far away", a hugh detour. AADT on B266 b/n A571 and A573 is 12,000 to 18,000 vehicles/day.
woah that's a lot

Quote:
It's also planned to build a new 4-laned B266 bypass of Bad Bodendorf. AADT is 15,000 to 18,000 vehicles per day up to B9.
that makes sense

it just seems to be just a road connecting A61 and A61 at least right now
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Old April 19th, 2015, 07:22 PM   #7783
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Bad Neuenahr-Ahrweiler has 27,000 inhabitants, Sinzig 17,000, Remagen 16,000,...
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Old April 19th, 2015, 07:26 PM   #7784
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I understand that the full road will keep the triple number A571-B266-A573, right? The detour is clearly a sign of a never built motorway (A31 I read), which has lead to this strange 90° curve and the detour for those coming from the south.

Also, note the 85 km without bridges nearby http://goo.gl/maps/5D3cB (although there is a ferry midway).
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Old April 19th, 2015, 08:06 PM   #7785
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
I understand that the full road will keep the triple number A571-B266-A573, right?
Yep.

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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The detour is clearly a sign of a never built motorway (A31 I read), which has lead to this strange 90° curve and the detour for those coming from the south.
A31 was in the master plan from 1973 to 1985. The A31 end had been at AD Bad Neuenahr-Ahrweiler north of Neuenahr. A573 had been A31, A571 a southern connection to A61. See map of 1976.
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Old April 19th, 2015, 09:24 PM   #7786
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A quick question about German road numbers.

Is it the case that the West German numbering plan was designed on an all-German basis or not, and if so, did that numbering scheme also include the possibility of returning to the "borders of 1937"?

I've always wondered how road numbers in the former East Germany were included into the German road plan.
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Old April 19th, 2015, 10:00 PM   #7787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
A quick question about German road numbers.

Is it the case that the West German numbering plan was designed on an all-German basis or not, and if so, did that numbering scheme also include the possibility of returning to the "borders of 1937"?

I've always wondered how road numbers in the former East Germany were included into the German road plan.
It wasn't much of a problem since motorways in former East Germany didn't have any numbers shown on signs (and most people didn't know the numbers).

It wasn't very difficult for "Fernverkehrsstraßen" (today Bundesstraßen), too, because both Germanys used the numbering of the old Reichsstraßen.
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Old April 19th, 2015, 11:33 PM   #7788
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The Schiersteiner Brücke will probably be opened for vehicles < 3.5t next Monday if a static load test will be done on Friday. There will be each a scales for vehicles. If its weight is >= 3.5t, the bridge will immediately be closed by a gate. Police have to open the gate to remove the truck. Fine: 75 € or 150 € in case of premeditation. Two lanes will direct to the bridge from Wiesbaden but only one lane will direct to the bridge from Mainz: press release, project page, news article.

Pics from SWR (click for more layouts):

The demaged bridge is in the middle of the pic (b/n acceleration and deceleration lanes). Construction of the new Rhine bridge on the left.

More info and pics: http://www.eautobahn.de/html/brucken...z-mombach.html.
I drove on it yesterday
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Old April 20th, 2015, 03:22 AM   #7789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
A quick question about German road numbers.

Is it the case that the West German numbering plan was designed on an all-German basis or not, and if so, did that numbering scheme also include the possibility of returning to the "borders of 1937"?

I've always wondered how road numbers in the former East Germany were included into the German road plan.
As said before, the numbering scheme for the Bundesstraßen (West) and Fernverkehrstraßen (East) were based on the old Reichsstraßen. They were just renamed with an B or F. In West Germany there were some new streets built or existing ones renamed, the got the number beginning with B399. So in general the Western Germany systen didn't cover the DDR roads, but in fact it did because the base was the same. And in general, on western maps, there wasn't any difference in marking and naming of East and West roads.

It was a bit different with the Autobahnen. There was a system for whole Germany (but just BRD and DDR!!) until 1974: http://www.autobahn-online.de/altenummerierung.html
However, this numbering system was changed in 1974 to the now used one. I guess this was in conjunction with the recognition of the DDR by the BRD in 1974. However, like with the Bundestraßen, western maps mostly signed the Autobahnen from West Germany over the border to the DDR with the same number in the DDR as in West Germany, e.g. A9 from Munich the whole way to Berlin.

Edit, to answer you last question:
So in 1990, the Fernverkehrsstraßen in the DDR beginning with a F were just renamed to Bundesstraßen beginning with a B but with the same number as before. No problems there since there just one or two new Fernverkehrsstraßen built in the DDR since 1945. And the Autobahnen got the numbers which were used unofficially before (see above). The ones which were not covered, got a spare number.

Last edited by stickedy; April 20th, 2015 at 03:28 AM.
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Old April 20th, 2015, 11:45 AM   #7790
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Originally Posted by stickedy View Post
As said before, the numbering scheme for the Bundesstraßen (West) and Fernverkehrstraßen (East) were based on the old Reichsstraßen. They were just renamed with an B or F. In West Germany there were some new streets built or existing ones renamed, the got the number beginning with B399. So in general the Western Germany systen didn't cover the DDR roads, but in fact it did because the base was the same. And in general, on western maps, there wasn't any difference in marking and naming of East and West roads.
Quite many of those roads cut by border of DDR and BRD retained their numbers on the both sides. In addition, there were a few roads, such as B248, cut by the border more than once, and still retaining their numbers.

I think that the people on the both sides believed in the unification on some day. That is why the numbering was kept contiguous.

The current numbering plan has a gap between B122 and B156, because those roads were located to the east of the Oder-Neisse line. Is Germany waiting for these areas to be re-annexed in the future?
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Old April 20th, 2015, 02:01 PM   #7791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickedy View Post
...
It was a bit different with the Autobahnen. There was a system for whole Germany (but just BRD and DDR!!) until 1974: http://www.autobahn-online.de/altenummerierung.html
...
This system could have been extended if it became nessecary, i.e. A6 Berlin-Stettin-through Pomorania-Elbling-Königsberg, or A4 Berlin-Cottbus-Sagan-Breslau-Gleiwitz-Beuthen, but thats totally hypothetical nowadays.

Here is an interesting site, pretty detailed description of all Reichsstraßen, unfortunately in German only, but pretty self descripting:

http://www.reichsstrassen.de.vu/

A bit off topic, but there even was a list of car plates reserved for the territories east of the Oder-Neiße-line when the system was introduced in West-Germany in the 50-ies. Something about that here, also in German only unfortunately: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostzone...fz-Kennzeichen
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Old April 20th, 2015, 07:23 PM   #7792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christophorus View Post
Here is an interesting site, pretty detailed description of all Reichsstraßen, unfortunately in German only, but pretty self descripting: http://www.reichsstrassen.de.vu/
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
The current numbering plan has a gap between B122 and B156, because those roads were located to the east of the Oder-Neisse line. Is Germany waiting for these areas to be re-annexed in the future?
R111-165 was used in former German regions which are in Poland or Russia today: http://www.carsten-wasow.de/reichsstrasse/liste111.htm.
R328-398 was used in occupied regions like France, Luxembourg, Poland, Czech Republic and Austria: http://www.carsten-wasow.de/reichsstrasse/liste328.htm.
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Old April 21st, 2015, 01:54 AM   #7793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christophorus View Post
This system could have been extended if it became nessecary, i.e. A6 Berlin-Stettin-through Pomorania-Elbling-Königsberg, or A4 Berlin-Cottbus-Sagan-Breslau-Gleiwitz-Beuthen, but thats totally hypothetical nowadays.
It is interesting that PL continues with old numbers (A6... and A4 doesn't touch Cottbus instead Goerlitz but does between Krzyowa (Lichtenwaldau)-Wroclaw/Breslau-Gliwice/Gleiwitz...
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Old April 21st, 2015, 10:49 PM   #7794
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It is interesting that PL continues with old numbers (A6... and A4 doesn't touch Cottbus instead Goerlitz but does between Krzyowa (Lichtenwaldau)-Wroclaw/Breslau-Gliwice/Gleiwitz...
Hm, A2 in Poland is more or less extension of A2 in Germany or vice versa. Basically the polish motorway numbering-system derives from the national road-numbering system as it is done in many other countries. East-West connections have even numbers and north-south have odd ones. I think there is no coincidence between german and polish numbers.

Back to german motorway numbering-system. It was based on having main arteries numbered from 1 to 9 and all other motorway-numbers mainly oriented at the former west-german postal codes, postal-codes had been designed with reunification in mind, too. So 1 was for Berlin and you could easily add the 11-19 numbers in East-Germany, 2 is Hamburg, 3 for Hannover, 4 for Düsseldorf, 5 for Cologne, 6 for Frankfurt, 7 for Stuttgart and 8 for Munich. But as you see the 9x motorways are near Munich and the only A81 is around Stuttgart. So it was only an orientation at postal-codes, no rule.

Following that rule two digit motorways like A41(planned), A43, A45, A47(planned), A49 have been numbered from east to west. A 40(planned, the now A40 was a three-digit-city motorway before), A42, A44, A46, A48 from north to south.

As I´m a numbering-freak I would like to see all those once planned german motorways (A32, A34, A35, A36, A41, A47, A56, A69, A77, A80, A83, A85,A89, A90, A91) to turn into at least express S-roads with those numbers like it is done in Austria. Maybe they think about this regarding tolls as a next idea from other beloved bavarian Mr. Dobrindt, the biggest pain in the ass we ever had in this job.
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Old April 21st, 2015, 11:22 PM   #7795
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Back to german motorway numbering-system. It was based on having main arteries numbered from 1 to 9 and all other motorway-numbers mainly oriented at the former west-german postal codes, postal-codes had been designed with reunification in mind, too.
It's a mix of grid and cluster.

2-digit roads form grid patterns within the clusters (with the same 'increase heading south and east, odds N-S, evens W-E as the main single digit routes have, or thereabouts). The clusters almost, but not quite, keep a countrywide grid system - Berlin as the 1 cluster undermines it in a big way, the 7 cluster is a bit too far north and the 4 and 5 clusters are the wrong way around.

And, of course, there are exceptions to the mini grids, and the big grid is far from perfect.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 07:20 PM   #7796
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Originally Posted by tunnel owl View Post
Following that rule two digit motorways like A41(planned), A43, A45, A47(planned), A49 have been numbered from east to west. A 40(planned, the now A40 was a three-digit-city motorway before), A42, A44, A46, A48 from north to south.
It's vice versa. Even west-east, odd north-south.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tunnel owl View Post
As I´m a numbering-freak I would like to see all those once planned german motorways (A32, A34, A35, A36, A41, A47, A56, A69, A77, A80, A83, A85,A89, A90, A91)
Agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tunnel owl View Post
to turn into at least express S-roads with those numbers like it is done in Austria.
Hell no! That's a mess! The existing yellow Autobahns (B roads) should be signed as (blue) Autobahns. Period.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 08:59 PM   #7797
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A44 Kassel - Eisenach

Good news. The u/c sections of A44 Kassel - Eisenach are on schedule ("voll im Zeitplan")!

Quote:
A44: AS Hessisch Lichtenau-East – Hasselbach 4.3km (September 2010 to 2016) – projectmap
A44: Hasselbach – AS Waldkappel 6.1km (March 2011 to 2016) – projectmap
A44: AS Helsa-East – AS Hessisch Lichtenau-West 6.1km (May 2010 to Late 2018) – projectmap
A44 b/n Hessisch Lichtenau-East and Waldkappel is announced to be opened in 2017.
A44 b/n Helsa-East and Hessisch Lichtenau-West is announced to be opened in 2019.

Source.

Tunnel excavation of 'Tunnel Küchen' (1.3km; east of Hessisch Lichtenau) was completed in February 2015.
Tunnel excavation of 'Tunnel Hirschhagen' (4.2km; south of Helsa) is announced to be completed in Mid 2016 (3.1km of the tubes are already bored).

Note: The quoted completion dates (2016/18) were announced in early 2013.
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Old April 24th, 2015, 02:17 PM   #7798
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A German court has admitted dashcam recordings as an evidence in a lawsuit.

http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/d...a-1030116.html

Quote:
"Die Gefahr des späteren Missbrauchs von ursprünglich zulässig gefertigten Beweismitteln besteht immer" - jedoch dürfe die "abstrakte Furcht vor allgegenwärtiger Datenerhebung (…) nicht dazu führen, dass den Bürgern sachgerechte technische Hilfsmittel zur effektiven Rechtsverfolgung kategorisch vorenthalten werden."
...
Das Gericht betonte, dass es bei der gerichtlichen Aufklärung von Verkehrsunfällen fast ausnahmslos an verlässlichen, objektiven Beweismitteln mangele. Die Beweissicherung durch die Dashcam bezeichneten sie in dem verhandelten Fall deshalb als "erforderlich und verhältnismäßig".
Translation:
Quote:
The risk of a later abuse of originally legally created evidence exists always - but the abstract fear of omnipresent data collection (...) must not lead to a categoric denial of the citizens's access to proper technical resources for the effective prosecution of right.
...
The Court emphasized that in the judicial investigation of traffic accidents, there is constant lack of reliable, objective evidence. The preservation of evidence by the dashcam they therefore referred to in the treated case as "necessary and proportionate".
There is hope.
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Old April 25th, 2015, 10:16 AM   #7799
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A94 Munich - Passau

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- The construction of the Lappachtalbrücke (OSM) started last week. The viaduct has a length of 287m and costs 14 million €. It is located on the A94 between AS Lengdorf and AS Dorfen. The PPP bidding for building the entire A94 from AS Pastetten to AS Heldenstein is announced to be probably started in 2015 .
The PPP was tendered, see press release. Contract time: 30 years. Construction time: 2016-2019. Length of road to be built: 33km. Length of road to be operated: 77km. See also tender.
There are four candidates. They will probably be asked in May 2014 to deliver a practical bid until late 2014. The PPP contract shall be placed in late 2015.
The A94 PPP contract should be placed in fall 2015, the main works shall begin in early 2016 and the completion shall be at the latest in late September 2019 according to an announcement of the ABDSB (road authority of southern Bavaria). Still 4 cancidates. They got the detailed documents now. The concession section is b/n Pastetten and Marktl (77km; 30 years). The company will not get the truck toll incomes b/c it is too difficult for the company to calculate the incomes. They will get money from the German state. Source.
There are still 4 bidders for the PPP contract. The 2nd negotiation will begin in late April. They will deliver their 'best and final order'. The construction deadline is 30th September 2019 but the concessionaire will get additional money for each month A94 would be opened earlier. The Bavarian Minister of Transport set the goal to open the 33km section in 2018. Total construction costs: 350 millioen €. The article has a pic showing the already u/c Lappachtalbrücke. Source (2).
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Old April 25th, 2015, 07:06 PM   #7800
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Drive on A9 from Nurnberg to Munich in Summer 2014

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