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Old May 23rd, 2015, 12:35 AM   #7861
italystf
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You don't expect such problems in a country like Germany. I think it's probably because a large percentage of German motorways is very old, even pre-WWII, so they didn't make advanced technical and geological surveys before building a bridge.
Countries who start building motorway later, such former Warsaw Pact countries, will probably have less problems of this kind in the far future.

Anyway, I read elsewhere that the first Autobahn opened in 1932. Can it be true? Or maybe was it the date when works started?
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Old May 23rd, 2015, 11:51 AM   #7862
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Most bridges in German Autobahns were destroyed during the war. There are few 1930s bridges that remain in service today. Most were rebuilt in 1950s or built new in the 1960s-1970s. And the most remaining bridges were replaced by widenings from the 1970s onward (for example A3 Köln - Frankfurt). The problematic bridges along A45 were built between 1963 and 1978.

A major event was the increasing of the axle load limit in 1965. The load limit was increased from 10 to 11.5 tonnes. So many bridges built before or around that time weren't designed for such a load. However, quite a number of bridges built well beyond 1965 are also problematic, for instance they are replacing bridges along A7 that were built more than a decade later, the Bräubachtalbrücke near Marktbreit, built 1981, is even being replaced.
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Old May 24th, 2015, 10:52 AM   #7863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Studies suggest that Germany needs an additional annual investment of ½ to 1 % of GDP (EUR 15–30 billion) in infrastructure to reduce the maintenance backlog and modernize infrastructure. Current investment in the 'Bundesfernstraßen' is € 7.2 billion, so it is suggested it needs a major infusion of funding, not just a lousy billion in three years to repair some bridges.
The Daehre commission declared in 2012 that an additional annual transport infrastructure investment of about 7.2 billion € is needed. Please refer to the final report. Not much happened meanwhile but the toll will be extended to get more income.
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Old May 24th, 2015, 07:45 PM   #7864
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there is only one reason for the situation in germany:

to less money for infrastructure

not more words needed really, for example, a decade ago germany get the truck - toll, what was the result, the normal motorway funding was reduced and there was not really more money available
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Old May 24th, 2015, 08:10 PM   #7865
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10th post for the picture



light blue = normal funding
dark blue = truck toll

financing not changed and stay around the value 5
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Old May 24th, 2015, 08:32 PM   #7866
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red = funding gap

In addition, we had stimulus packages in 2009 and 2010.
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Old May 24th, 2015, 09:25 PM   #7867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Studies suggest that Germany needs an additional annual investment of ½ to 1 % of GDP (EUR 15–30 billion) in infrastructure to reduce the maintenance backlog and modernize infrastructure. Current investment in the 'Bundesfernstraßen' is € 7.2 billion, so it is suggested it needs a major infusion of funding, not just a lousy billion in three years to repair some bridges.
Let us do some quick and dirty modeling.

Let us assume that the damage reparation cost in some units obey the formula

f(x) = x+0,1*x^2

where x represents years since the construction or a major repair:

f(10) = 20
f(20) = 60
f(30) = 120
f(40) = 200
f(50) = 300
etc

Let us assume that the road needs a major repair if the cost is 200 units or more, i.e. after 40 years. If the state puts 200 units in major reparation each year, the repair backlog remains zero.

However, if the state begins to "save money", the backlog will grow amazingly quickly. If the same 200 units in invested after 45 years, the backlog grows to 1140 units. If the interval were 50 years, the backlog would be 2530 units. That explains why the need for a major repair effort arises rather suddenly.
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Old May 25th, 2015, 12:55 PM   #7868
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Anyway, I read elsewhere that the first Autobahn opened in 1932. Can it be true? Or maybe was it the date when works started?
The first Autobahn (AVUS in Berlin) was opened in 1921. The first Autobahn connecting two cities (Cologne and Bonn, today A555) was opened in 1932. The last 1930s vestiges of Autobahn stretches were resurfaced in the 90s and early 00s.

The problem in the network isn't the 1930s Autobahns - those were for the most part overhauled in the 1980s, with the last vestiges (often small bridges across them restricting planned widening) removed about a decade ago in most cases. The problem are more the 1960s and 1970s expansions that were often finished in some initial state with planned further expansion backdated indefinitely.
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Old May 25th, 2015, 01:29 PM   #7869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kato2k8 View Post
The first Autobahn (AVUS in Berlin) was opened in 1921.
AVUS means 'Automobil Verkehrs- und Übungs-Straße' ('Automobile traffic and training road'). The length was 19km. According to German wikipedia, the car toll was 10 Mark per drive, 1000 Mark for 3 months. Because of the toll, the road was mostly used for race training only.
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Old May 25th, 2015, 01:39 PM   #7870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kato2k8 View Post
The first Autobahn (AVUS in Berlin) was opened in 1921. The first Autobahn connecting two cities (Cologne and Bonn, today A555) was opened in 1932.
AVUS was no named as 'Autobahn' but as 'Automobile Traffic and Practice Road' (Automobil-Verkehrs-und-Übungstraße, AVUS). The current A555 was the first road to be called as Autobahn, opened in 1932. Not however that this road did not fit the current motorway standards, it was not a 4 lane, divided highway. it was 12 meters wide and had no at grade intersections but was not divided.


If you look for the word 'Autobahn', without checking the road equipment, then yes, the first Autobahn was opened in August 1932.
The first road which has fulfilled the motorway standards was the first part of HaFraBa (Hansa towns - Frankfurt - Basel), the section Frankfurt - Darmstadt of the current A5. It is exactly 80 years old, was opened in May 1935. Chris posted a picure about the opening ceremony a few days ago.
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Old May 25th, 2015, 01:51 PM   #7871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
AVUS means 'Automobil Verkehrs- und Übungs-Straße' ('Automobile traffic and training road'). The length was 19km. According to German wikipedia, the car toll was 10 Mark per drive, 1000 Mark for 3 months. Because of the toll, the road was mostly used for race training only.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsm...raftumrechnung

10 RM = 42.40 € (based on year 2000).
1000 RM = 4240 €

The future car toll will cost just a fraction for much more than just 19km....
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Old May 25th, 2015, 02:17 PM   #7872
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It's the same with Italian Autostrada. They were called that since the early 1920s, but none of them had motorway standards until the 1950s. Yet, they are often called the first motorway in the world.

High-standard roads gradually evolved into what is now known as a motorway.

There is a similar issue with the first American freeway-standard road. Many parkways were developed in the 1920s and 1930s around New York, but the first generation had no full control of access, nor a central divider. It wasn't until the mid-1930s that they constructed parkways with full control of access and median dividers.

Many early motorways did have divided lanes, but no crash barrier between them (usually just a 1 - 2 meter wide strip of grass). Most countries started adding them in the late 1950s or early 1960s. For example Houston's first freeway did not have a crash barrier in the median as well.
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Old May 25th, 2015, 04:11 PM   #7873
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The Federal Highway Administration waited too long to maintain or better repair the bridges in time. Now more and more of them have to demolished and replaced with new bridges and this nationwide. A shame for a "developed" country .

Last edited by detreinbek; May 25th, 2015 at 04:18 PM.
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Old May 26th, 2015, 01:24 AM   #7874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kato2k8 View Post
The first Autobahn (AVUS in Berlin) was opened in 1921. The first Autobahn connecting two cities (Cologne and Bonn, today A555) was opened in 1932. The last 1930s vestiges of Autobahn stretches were resurfaced in the 90s and early 00s.

The problem in the network isn't the 1930s Autobahns - those were for the most part overhauled in the 1980s, with the last vestiges (often small bridges across them restricting planned widening) removed about a decade ago in most cases. The problem are more the 1960s and 1970s expansions that were often finished in some initial state with planned further expansion backdated indefinitely.
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Old May 26th, 2015, 09:53 AM   #7875
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The Federal Highway Administration waited too long to maintain or better repair the bridges in time. Now more and more of them have to demolished and replaced with new bridges and this nationwide. A shame for a "developed" country .
Is it a shame but a successful strategy to have new bridges instead of putting money to keep potential bottlenecks alive?
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Old May 27th, 2015, 02:29 PM   #7876
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I've been looking into A30 at Osnabrück. They repaved the Autobahn with porous asphalt in 2006. It has to be repaved now. What I don't understand that it takes 7 months to replace only 5 kilometers of porous asphalt. The Netherlands has porous asphalt everywhere, but replacing such a length usually takes only a couple of weeks of night works. We don't have long-term 'Baustelles' just for repaving works.

Permanent baustelles are used in the Netherlands mostly for large-scale construction (widenings) and full-depth reconstruction (grundsanierung). But that's already been done in Osnabrück in 2006.

Poland repaves 57 kilometers of A4 west of Opole in the same time.
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Old May 27th, 2015, 06:41 PM   #7877
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Must be some premium German asphalt
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Old May 27th, 2015, 10:39 PM   #7878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I've been looking into A30 at Osnabrück. They repaved the Autobahn with porous asphalt in 2006. It has to be repaved now. What I don't understand that it takes 7 months to replace only 5 kilometers of porous asphalt. The Netherlands has porous asphalt everywhere, but replacing such a length usually takes only a couple of weeks of night works. We don't have long-term 'Baustelles' just for repaving works.
Interesting. Modern asphalt machinery is able to pave even four lane kilometers a day.
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Old May 27th, 2015, 11:36 PM   #7879
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Needless to mention that the world´s best paving machinery comes from Germany!

May I introduce you to the world´s largest road paver:

The mighty VÖGELE SUPER 3000-2!


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Old May 28th, 2015, 04:08 PM   #7880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I've been looking into A30 at Osnabrück. They repaved the Autobahn with porous asphalt in 2006. It has to be repaved now. What I don't understand that it takes 7 months to replace only 5 kilometers of porous asphalt. The Netherlands has porous asphalt everywhere, but replacing such a length usually takes only a couple of weeks of night works. We don't have long-term 'Baustelles' just for repaving works.

Permanent baustelles are used in the Netherlands mostly for large-scale construction (widenings) and full-depth reconstruction (grundsanierung). But that's already been done in Osnabrück in 2006.

Poland repaves 57 kilometers of A4 west of Opole in the same time.
You are right!!! I also don`t understand why in Germany nearly all needs so much more time !? In our neighbour countries is a 5 KM stretch repaved in 2 to 3 nights. Also in my second home country - Malaysia - this is done in less than 3 days. And it makes me angry when I pass a construction area in daytime in the week and no worker is to see !!!
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