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Old July 28th, 2015, 07:09 PM   #8041
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEwinnen View Post
Kreuz Leverkusen will be reconstructed like this:

I thought this was the favored solution?

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Old July 28th, 2015, 09:05 PM   #8042
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http://www.strassen.nrw.de/projekte/...tml#abschnitt3

"Windmill or Maltese variant... No favorite variant at the moment because feasibility study is not yet completed... Preliminary results should be available in 1st half of 2015..."
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Old July 28th, 2015, 09:35 PM   #8043
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I took a closer look at the new Luise Kiesselbach tunnel in Munich today. Part of the Mittelerring and a building site for 6 years. It should bring relief to the South-West side of Munich.

I drove this stretch regularly during the building period and it was always jammed except in the late evening and night.

1. My journey starts on the Eastern side of the Isar. Passing the Brudermuhltunnel first.



2. Crossing the Isar



3. Brudermuhltunnel (60 km/h)



4. B11 Intersection just before the tunnel. This jam was also very common during construction time.



5. Until Monday morning all traffic had to go right here.



6. Now the tunnel is open! 50 km/h



7. Heckenstallertunnel



8. Right lane is traffic coming from the Passauerstrasse



9. First set of speed cameras



10. To go to A95 keep right



11. Pedestrian bridge near the Sappelstrasse



12. Exit for A95 - MR West is not connected to A95 by tunnel - this means all traffic has to go above ground to the Luise Kiesselbach platz and turn left to the A95. This will remain a bottleneck. It does taper into 2 lanes going up but the traffic lights can't handle the traffic at the moment hopefully it will get better with the final ground level setup.



13. Traffic cues a few hundred meters back into the tunnel



14. Coming up to Luise Kiesselbach platz



15. Left for A95, Straight for MR tunnel Northbound



16. I went left to A95 and this is on the way back at the end of A95 coming from Starnberg



17. End of A95



18. Exit right for local traffic and center via Albert-Rosshaupterstrasse. Straight for MR-Sud and MR-Nord.



19. 8%! 30 km/h - which I hope is temporary, from unlimited autobahn to 30 km/h in a few kilometers...



20. Left for MR-Nord and right for MR-Sud



21.



22. Another set of speed cameras in the 30 km/h corner coming from A95 going to MR-Sud - they will make a lot of money here.



23. Merging onto MR-Sud



24. In the future the right lane will continue to the next exit giving merging traffic a bit more time to merge. Not sure when it will open though.



25. Exit Passauerstrasse is still closed.



26. Tunnel eastbound 40km/h. Not sure why its only 40 here while its 50 on the other side. And another set of speed cameras.



Overall traffic westbound on MR-Sud is still very bad. The tunnel didn't really raise capacity but merely moved the problem from above ground to below ground.

The MR-Sud to A95 connection is rubbish, would have been nice to have a free-flow tunnel as well but I assume it was too expensive as they had to make another tube and dig even deeper.

Now its two more years until everything on street level is hopefully finished too. Traffic wise there is not that much hope on a major improvement but for the people that live in the area its a big improvement.
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Old July 28th, 2015, 09:37 PM   #8044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
http://www.strassen.nrw.de/projekte/...tml#abschnitt3

"Windmill or Maltese variant... No favorite variant at the moment because feasibility study is not yet completed... Preliminary results should be available in 1st half of 2015..."
Yeah I saw the Strassen.NRW thingy as well but IIRC an RP or KSTA article had something about the 'windmill' (turbine, rather) variant being bevorzugt.
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Old July 28th, 2015, 09:48 PM   #8045
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Nice report on the tunnels in München.

It gives the feeling that this huge project was underdesigned from the start though. I hope these speed limits are dynamic (based on traffic conditions) instead of fixed.
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Old July 28th, 2015, 09:57 PM   #8046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Nice report on the tunnels in München.

It gives the feeling that this huge project was underdesigned from the start though. I hope these speed limits are dynamic (based on traffic conditions) instead of fixed.
Thanks! It seems the only way the politicians can find enough support for these tunnel projects is if they keep the setup as much as possible as it is. Adding additional lanes are a no-go so apart from getting rid the delays from traffic lights the risk of congestion is still the same as before.

Re speed limits; I think they just set them to what they are now for the time being until they fix some issues and open the exit at Passauerstrasse. I hope after that they are raised. Especially the 30 km/h bit is very very slow and there were no other cars going there besides me so I doubt its dynamic.
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Old July 28th, 2015, 09:57 PM   #8047
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I think the only real traffic flow improvement would be A99 southern ring between A96 and A8 (or minimum A96-A95).
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Old July 28th, 2015, 10:00 PM   #8048
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Quote:
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I think the only real traffic flow improvement would be A99 southern ring between A96 and A8 (or minimum A96-A95).
Yes but that will probably not be ready before 2030.
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Old July 28th, 2015, 10:02 PM   #8049
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It's not planned at all. It's not contained in any demand plan. It won't be built for the time being. Almost the entire existing A99 (west, north, east) is planned to get 2 additional lanes (2x4 or 2x3 lanes).
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Old July 28th, 2015, 10:25 PM   #8050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
It's not planned at all. It's not contained in any demand plan. It won't be built for the time being. Almost the entire existing A99 (west, north, east) is planned to get 2 additional lanes (2x4 or 2x3 lanes).
They need to fix the A8/A99 intersection South of Munich too. Ideally changing the A99-East from exit on the right to three lanes main connection on the left and the other directions; A8 and A99-West as new exit that should get rid of a lot of the jams there.
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Old July 28th, 2015, 10:31 PM   #8051
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I think there's no plan to change it. But it's planned to widen A8 and A99 to 2x4 lanes. That would be an opportunity to reconstruct the interchange too.... I guess 2030+ though....
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Old July 30th, 2015, 09:27 AM   #8052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Nice report on the tunnels in München.

It gives the feeling that this huge project was underdesigned from the start though. I hope these speed limits are dynamic (based on traffic conditions) instead of fixed.
Well. I think Munich stands for a good example how to renew infrastrcture but not to increase capacity significantly. A real German desease!! Just to pick out some more massive planning mistakes in and around Munich:

1) Allacher Tunnel
2) Aubinger Tunnel
3) Petuel Tunnel
4) Richard Strauss Tunnel
5) A 99 as a whole
6) 2R as a whole
....


The new 2R Tunnels do have the same capacity as the tunnels finished for the olympic games 1972!!!

A 2x2 beltway motorway (A99 west) for an urban area of 3 million stressed heavily by long distance traffic is more or less unique in the world!

All projects are planned at a very very small capacity considering Munich as the fastest growing major German city situated at a bottle neck for long distance routes in central Europe.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 12:22 PM   #8053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isek View Post
Well. I think Munich stands for a good example how to renew infrastrcture but not to increase capacity significantly. A real German desease!! Just to pick out some more massive planning mistakes in and around Munich:

1) Allacher Tunnel
2) Aubinger Tunnel
3) Petuel Tunnel
4) Richard Strauss Tunnel
5) A 99 as a whole
6) 2R as a whole
....


The new 2R Tunnels do have the same capacity as the tunnels finished for the olympic games 1972!!!

A 2x2 beltway motorway (A99 west) for an urban area of 3 million stressed heavily by long distance traffic is more or less unique in the world!

All projects are planned at a very very small capacity considering Munich as the fastest growing major German city situated at a bottle neck for long distance routes in central Europe.
No ambition politicians meets NIMBY meets environmental activist = expensive compromise.

In The Netherlands some ambitious politicians found a way to shut the NIMBYs and activists up for the greater economic good and got things done quickly and well. Half the countries highways were widened or reconstructed in the last decade. If only Germany could do the same...
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Old July 30th, 2015, 07:44 PM   #8054
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I guess if Munich would be a Dutch city the A99 would be from 2×4 to 2x5, the A9 2x6 and the B2R 2×3 to 2x4!

Just to go back to reality: Just give me two projects and would be happy: The A99 closing and the connection between the A92 and B2R!
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Old July 30th, 2015, 10:30 PM   #8055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I still don't like E233. It is usually better on Sundays as there are fewer trucks, but there were still enough trucks to make it an annoying drive, with traffic going from 60 to 100 to 60 all the time. But it is significantly shorter than the Autobahn route via Leer & Oldenburg.
I drove E233 from A1 to A31 last Sunday evening. Less trucks but a long queue of cars. I stopped about in the middle b/n A1 and A31. Afterwards, there was no queue but just some cars driving ~90km/h.

There's an official statement of the Federal Government (Bundesregierung) about E233 planning progress: > click <. The first (out of 7) plan approval procecures should begin in early 2016. The plan approval order could be passed in late 2017. Costs: 123.3 million €. Total costs of the entire project: 719.1 million € for 76.7km, 9.4 million €/km. The benefit-cost ratio is 4.6. Maximum AADT truck share is 34%.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 10:43 PM   #8056
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A94 Munich - Passau

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
The plan approval procedure for the Malching - Kirchham section (6.0km) started in 2006 (OSM). It was officically canceled in March 2013, and a new procedure was started. A construction period of 5 years was announced (about 60 million €).
The plan approval procedure for the last section from Kirchham to AD Pocking was started in June 2012 (OSM). The construction period was declared to 3 years (12.5km; about 160 million €).
The Federal Minister of Transport, Mr. Dobrindt, announced that the Malching-Kirchham plan approval order should be passed in August 2015. If it won't be challenged the planning should be legal by the end of 2015 and he will immediately release the 104 million € because they are available by the 2016 budget (Bundeshaushalt). Source.

btw: The estimated costs were 81 million € in March 2015, the announced construction begin was 2016. Kirchham-Pocking costs were 155 million € and the announced construction begin late 2016. Source.


Note: Pastetten - Heldenstein is another section:

A94: AS Dorfen – AS Heldenstein 14.9km (2016 to 2019) – projectmap (BY; plan approval: September 1998 – November 2011; complaints withdrawn; PPP tender procedure in progress)


PS: I'll post more info about German road projects tomorrow (about construction delays, estimated openings and groundbreakings)
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Old July 30th, 2015, 10:48 PM   #8057
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Quote:
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If it won't be challenged the planning should be legal by the end of 2015 and he will immediately release the 104 million € because they are available by the 2016 budget (Bundeshaushalt).
What happens if it is delayed to 2017? Will it lose the funding planned for 2016?

In the Netherlands we have an infrastructure fund. This means that once a project has cleared all legal hurdles, the entire funding becomes available, regardless of when or how fast it is spent. So it is not dependent on the fluctuations of the annual budget cycle.

I think this is somewhat comparable to how PPP projects are funded. You'll notice that large (longer distance) PPP projects are completed much faster than conventionally funded projects which are often partitioned in a lot of small segments, each with their own schedule.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 11:09 PM   #8058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What happens if it is delayed to 2017? Will it lose the funding planned for 2016?
The article just says "Bundeshaushalt". I added 2016 (--> 2016 budget) because the 2016 Bundeshaushalt is the only valid Bundeshaushalt.......

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
In the Netherlands we have an infrastructure fund. This means that once a project has cleared all legal hurdles, the entire funding becomes available, regardless of when or how fast it is spent. So it is not dependent on the fluctuations of the annual budget cycle.
I've absolute no idea how it works in Germany. It's an intransparent procedure. Schleswig-Holstein complaint (source) that they got no money by the recent funding announcement but Mr. Dobrindt said, they need building permit first. Nevertheless, the project, e.g. A21, B202, B207, would be funded anyway (source). Schleswig-Holstein complaint and asked for compensation of the initial funding for A7 PPP project (they said it's a "hoher zweistelliger Millionenbetrag" = "high double digit millions") and got 144 million € now .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think this is somewhat comparable to how PPP projects are funded. You'll notice that large (longer distance) PPP projects are completed much faster than conventionally funded projects which are often partitioned in a lot of small segments, each with their own schedule.
Dunno. I know that VDE projects (Verkehrsprojekte Deutsche Einheit = Transportation projects German Unity) have a special status, that means projects like A143 and A44 are already listed in the budget for years while they had/have no building permit.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 11:16 PM   #8059
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There is also the so-called "Investitionsrahmenplan" (the current one is the IRP 2011-2015). Let's translate it "Investment master plan". It's a list of transportation projects (road, railway and waterway) containing a lot of projects which should be funded next if they have or will get building permit. Let's call it a pool of candidates to be funded next (by the annual budget). I read in an official document that the IRP is definitely NOT a funding plan though!

It's just intransparent...............
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Old July 30th, 2015, 11:18 PM   #8060
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There was an IRP 2011-2015. I wonder how many projects in that list are actually completed or in very advanced construction stage now. The typical complaint about the Bundesverkehrswegeplan is that about half of all urgent projects listed in 2003 are still not under construction today.
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