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Old August 1st, 2015, 08:51 PM   #8081
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Geez, 9.5 years for a bridge replacement
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Old August 2nd, 2015, 12:41 AM   #8082
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Hochmoselbrücke, August 2015 by Attila Németh, on Flickr
Hochmoselbrücke, August 2015 by Attila Németh, on Flickr
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Old August 2nd, 2015, 10:22 AM   #8083
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I drove there last Wednesday. Looks impressive .
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Old August 2nd, 2015, 11:06 AM   #8084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
is induced demand even a problem ? Surely if the road is improved and people drive, that situation is better than the situation that existed before (people wanted to drive, but didn't because the roads were bad)
Well the answer is tricky and depends quite a lot on local conditions.

For example, in US-style exurbia the road network is designed in such a way that even the simplest errands require car trips. This obviously quickly overloads the system's arterials which in turn is addressed by widening with in turn quickly get clogged again. Is this because of induced demand? Some of it, yes: free-flowing traffic makes development of adjacent greenfields more attractive.

But the larger effect is one of failed policy. Transportation networks that require car trips for e.g. bread and milk runs are patently absurd. Were there truly viable, preferably cheaper, alternative options (say a good bike network) to make these kinds of trips, it would in all likelihood eliminate low-driving-value trips and ease congestion as well.

The Dutch transportation network provides this, better than anyone else. In a way, where we can come as close as we can to isolating induced demand as a variable, we shouldn't be too surprised that it accounts for 12.5%* of new trips.

* Converting the 1/8 ratio mentioned above to a percentage. Because sometimes the type of number chosen expresses a particular bias *cough cough*.
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Old August 2nd, 2015, 12:00 PM   #8085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
Well the answer is tricky and depends quite a lot on local conditions. For example, in US-style exurbia the road network is designed in such a way that even the simplest errands require car trips. This obviously quickly overloads the system's arterials which in turn is addressed by widening with in turn quickly get clogged again. Is this because of induced demand? Some of it, yes: free-flowing traffic makes development of adjacent greenfields more attractive. But the larger effect is one of failed policy. Transportation networks that require car trips for e.g. bread and milk runs are patently absurd. Were there truly viable, preferably cheaper, alternative options (say a good bike network) to make these kinds of trips, it would in all likelihood eliminate low-driving-value trips and ease congestion as well. The Dutch transportation network provides this, better than anyone else. In a way, where we can come as close as we can to isolating induced demand as a variable, we shouldn't be too surprised that it accounts for 12.5%* of new trips. * Converting the 1/8 ratio mentioned above to a percentage. Because sometimes the type of number chosen expresses a particular bias *cough cough*.
You are on to something here. In Munich the problem is that the bike infrastructure is quite poor as well. Many important routes don't have separate bike lanes and when they are there they are too narrow for people to overtake. Also the public transport is not ideal, the second stammstrecke is needed desperately.

The current decision to not expand the road network because it will draw traffic away from other poor transport options is not the right forward. With a growing population inbestments in road, rail and bike infrastructure should go hand in hand.

Back to A99-Sudwest this will make a big difference for through traffic on the A8. It will relieve A99 East and the Mittelerring. That is worth a lot more than the little induced traffic as a negative factor.
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Old August 3rd, 2015, 09:44 AM   #8086
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I drove the new B2R tunnel Süd West last night. Very disappointing! Narrow lanes. Winding lanes! Only 1 lane connecting the A95 to each west and east-bound respectively. Only 2 continuous narrow lanes for the B2R within the tunnel. Speed limit of 30 (!) km/h on the ramps and 50 km/h on the main sections. Intensive automated speed control systems.

This tunnel was planned not to increase capacity but only to restore the surface for the residents and to increase housing prices. From what i saw i even think that capacity has been slightly reduced! I repeat: very very disappointing planning.
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Old August 3rd, 2015, 11:29 AM   #8087
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Speed limit 30 km/h is temporary for safety reasons due to ongoing works. But with this they made a mistake which you can see here

Quote:
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The right lane into the tunnel is closed for a short stretch, so drivers think in the tunnel they cannot go right to B2R south. This leds to the long queue on the exit on the right side. Therefore both lanes into the tunnel will be open now.

The tunnel will definitely increase capacity since up to now A95 ended at a traffic light with a very short green phase!
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Old August 7th, 2015, 01:13 AM   #8088
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Does someone here know what's up with the speed cameras on the A2 between Braunschweig en Hannover? The speed limitation signs (130) have been turned to the side, I assume that means it's unlimited? Quite strange, when I turned onto the highway no speed limit was indicated. However, the A2 is rigged with speed cameras (quite dangerous as people brake out of nowhere anyway).
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Old August 7th, 2015, 09:48 PM   #8089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ni3lS View Post
Does someone here know what's up with the speed cameras on the A2 between Braunschweig en Hannover? The speed limitation signs (130) have been turned to the side, I assume that means it's unlimited? Quite strange, when I turned onto the highway no speed limit was indicated. However, the A2 is rigged with speed cameras (quite dangerous as people brake out of nowhere anyway).
I had the exact same problem. I was driving fast there as there was no speed limit, saw the radar and braked as much as I could.
I thought WTF? Did I miss the sign? But the same happened a few km later and I am sure there was definitely no speed limit.
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Old August 7th, 2015, 09:56 PM   #8090
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Of course there's a speed limit: 80km/h for trucks!

http://www.verkehrsportal.de/board/i...owtopic=114557
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Old August 8th, 2015, 12:29 AM   #8091
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Phew. I was so afraid that I got fined. Wouldn't be the first time this year on the autobahn. It was such a mess on the A2 on wednesday by the way. A truck driver died and a few others crashed. I sat in a jam for 3.5 hours (35 degrees) on the A392 near Braunschweig of all roads
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Old August 8th, 2015, 11:17 AM   #8092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Of course there's a speed limit: 80km/h for trucks!

http://www.verkehrsportal.de/board/i...owtopic=114557
Those radars can differentiate trucks and cars?
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Old August 8th, 2015, 12:41 PM   #8093
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Interesting indeed, just took the time to read part of the discussion. A few people believe it flashes cars that don't keep enough distance between them and the car in front or what? That would be such bullshit, as in many instances there is nothing you can do. I also had the impression that it flashed when I passed (something red / orange) so that's why I was worried.

My theory is the following: they want to implement a speedlimit there (for whatever reasons) and are just working on preparing the autobahn. Because I did see 130 signs but they were turned to the outsides. Maybe they will make it a 130 speed limit and then turn on the cameras afterwards?
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Old August 8th, 2015, 04:41 PM   #8094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Those radars can differentiate trucks and cars?
Of course, I think it's quite common, isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ni3lS View Post
Interesting indeed, just took the time to read part of the discussion. A few people believe it flashes cars that don't keep enough distance between them and the car in front or what? That would be such bullshit, as in many instances there is nothing you can do. I also had the impression that it flashed when I passed (something red / orange) so that's why I was worried.
That's also quite common (in Germany). "Abstandskontrolle". It's measured more than once over a distance of 300m, see here.
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Old August 8th, 2015, 05:10 PM   #8095
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It's still bullshit IMO because that's not something that you always have control over. If you're going 150 in the left lane and someone merges into your lane going 100, there isn't much you can do. Same for drivers in front of you that suddenly brake (for example because of these cameras), even if you want to keep your distance, it's not always possible.
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Old August 8th, 2015, 05:16 PM   #8096
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I thought the same but... It should be possible. If one merges, you could brake.... That's why it's measured over a distance. You CAN react but I'm not sure if it's safe or clever to do......
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Old August 8th, 2015, 05:24 PM   #8097
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Is it the stretch with the VBA (traffic control system)? If so then the speed cameras will be only activated, if the VBA shows a speed limit. (But it still checks for trucks and flashes them, so many car drivers get confused)
There are 5 of those speed cameras between AS Hämelerwald and Kreuz Wolfsburg/Köngislutter. (3 towards Berlin, 2 towards Hannover)

Sometime ago they dismantled the VBA (circa 1 1/2 years?) and so there was a 130km/h speed limit between 6 a.m. and 8 p.m.. Probably that's why there're still those signs.

P.S.: Some years ago these rip off speed cameras were mentioned in a segment of a satire magazine in Germany (Extra 3). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsENcmBOrnI
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Old August 13th, 2015, 09:05 PM   #8098
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kato2k8 View Post
Baden-Württemberg temporarily set a 80 km/h speed limit on all Autobahn routes in the state with concrete surfacing from July 3rd to July 8th. Motorcyclists were warned to avoid these routes entirely if possible. Affected about 400 km of the 1054 km network.
Reason was multiple sudden cracks (lifting one side by up to 30cm) due to heat in excess of 40°C on the surface, primarily on the A5, with some cars slightly damaged.
It was annouced today that it's planned to renovate these Autobahn sections in Baden-Württemberg within ten years (270km; 300 million €).
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Old August 13th, 2015, 10:12 PM   #8099
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Great. Another Baustellen added.
Soon the whole network will be under construction...
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Old August 13th, 2015, 10:56 PM   #8100
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Great. Another Baustellen added.
Soon the whole network will be under construction...
Now, now, come on. Every Baustelle will come to an end. And once the work is done, it will be great.

Take the A1 between Hamburg and Bremen. It was 2+2 some years ago, with speed limits and permanent traffic jam. Then the widening started and it was a real mess for four years. But today, it is great.

These days, the A7 is being widened from the Elbtunnel northwards to Bordesholm. Yes, it is a mess, but once it will be finished, it will be great, 3+3 north of HH and 4+4 inside HH.

The point is, once they'll be done with that, they are going to start to replace the viaduct south of the Elbtunnel. That will take another couple of years. And they need to rebuild the Nord-Ostsee-Kanal-bridge close to Rendsburg (a.k.a. Rader Hochbrücke).

But once it will be finished...

... it will be great ...

... and I will be old ....

... and they'll be digging somewhere else ...

... panta rhei ...
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