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Old August 13th, 2015, 10:59 PM   #8101
cinxxx
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My parents came from Romania to visit. They also drove to Saarland.
They were shocked by the number of Baustellen, Staus and everything. Nothing like that in Hungary or Austria...

... and yes, when they finish the whole stretch the first part they made will be old and will need renovation
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Old August 13th, 2015, 11:42 PM   #8102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
My parents came from Romania to visit. They also drove to Saarland.
They were shocked by the number of Baustellen, Staus and everything. Nothing like that in Hungary or Austria...
And then people say the German streets were left to decay.
As for motorways, that is not true (while for some local roads , you'd need a Jeep)

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... and yes, when they finish the whole stretch the first part they made will be old and will need renovation
Absolutely, but this is simply due to the length of the network. Germany is a big country, after all. There will always be roadworks.

Last edited by Heico-M; August 14th, 2015 at 12:08 AM.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 11:45 PM   #8103
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I agree, but so is France, Italy, Spain ☺
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Old August 14th, 2015, 12:09 AM   #8104
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I agree, but so is France, Italy, Spain ☺
True. And I hope they have roadworks, too. Otherwise they won't have any motorways any more at some point.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 10:54 AM   #8105
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I agree, but so is France, Italy, Spain ☺
No.
France has an area almost twice as large as Germany (640 / 357 thousand sq. km) but slightliy less population (66 / 81 M). Population density is twice as large in Germany than in France (226 / 116 ppl/sq.km). The more dense the people live, the more motorway is needed, and the busier those motoways will be. It's quite an important factor.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 12:51 PM   #8106
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I was referring to the fact that France is also a big country, you can't contradict that.
And it also has many km of roads. I was comparing the number of Baustellen/km.

But if you bring up density, than NL is big, and clearly doesn't have this much Baustellen/km
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Old August 14th, 2015, 02:27 PM   #8107
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I drove 6,600 kilometers through France and Spain in June. I passed through 4 roadworks. If you would drive such a distance through Germany, you would pass through 150 roadworks (this summer there were 300+ road works on 12500 km of Autobahn).

If you look at the sheer amount of road works compared to other countries it appears as if Germany has an incredible maintenance backlog they cannot solve. Germany has had a huge amount of road works for years. And it will continue for years to come considering the amount of bridges that need to be demolished and reconstructed.

If you compare the duration of road works, you will notice they take significantly longer in Germany than in the Netherlands, France or Poland. For instance, in Nordrhein-Westfalen, there are 32 - 35 long-term Baustellen throughout this year's construction season. In similarly sized Netherlands (area, population and motorway length) there are only 5 or 6 long-term road works. Most maintenance and renovation is done with night work and weekend closures.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 10:56 PM   #8108
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Could it have to do with the speed limits? Maybe in other countries the tarmac lasts longer due to speed limits and in Germany it has to be renewed more often to be fit for higher speeds? At higher speeds the tarmac would also have to be thicker.
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Old August 15th, 2015, 06:30 AM   #8109
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age of motorways, and the fact that a lot of ex East Germany has old, soviet infrastructure that hasn't been replaced probably plays a factor. A good chunk of Germany was very poor until recently, it takes a long time to eliminate the maintenance backlog that the communists left.
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Old August 15th, 2015, 07:16 AM   #8110
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They've been working hard though. The road from say, Prague-Dresden-Berlin is good on the German side, especially around Berlin, the Berliner Ring is good (but some major investments going on / been going on)... A11 Berlin - Szczecin OK this one is generally garbage but AADT is low. A12 Berlin-Poznan road is excellent.

But maybe all that "unity investment" is distracting from the core and most important roads in the Ruhr area which were already made in older times, but have massive traffic counts (well not by GTA standards, but that is only because of the many different, complimentary routes)
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Old August 15th, 2015, 11:43 AM   #8111
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Quote:
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age of motorways, and the fact that a lot of ex East Germany has old, soviet infrastructure that hasn't been replaced probably plays a factor. A good chunk of Germany was very poor until recently, it takes a long time to eliminate the maintenance backlog that the communists left.
No. Motorways in the East are excellent throughout. Better than in the West, I'd say. The bad roads have disappeared long ago.
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Old August 15th, 2015, 11:49 AM   #8112
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It might even be a cause of the current troubles. From what I've read significant investment went to Eastern Germany after the unification, which may have caused a maintenace backlog in the rest of Germany.
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Old August 15th, 2015, 11:54 AM   #8113
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Quite a large proportion of Autobahns in the east have 'concrete cancer' (Betonkrebs) and need to be replaced far earlier than anticipated. In Sachsen-Anhalt alone 220 out of 956 km of carriageway need to be renovated for this reason.

http://www.mz-web.de/mitteldeutschla...,26656808.html
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Old August 15th, 2015, 01:59 PM   #8114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
My parents came from Romania to visit. They also drove to Saarland.
They were shocked by the number of Baustellen, Staus and everything. Nothing like that in Hungary or Austria...
Your parents should drive on the Romanian A1 b/n Cunta and Saliste (opened 1 year ago). The entire 20km section is just one large Baustelle.

Most speed limits are useless because there're no roadworks. If there are roadworks, even with workers walking on the carriageway, there is no speed limit.

There's a construction side at Cunta i/c. Speed limit 60, lane reduction announced. After more than 1km there are just some red/yellow poles but no roadworks and no lane reduction. I drove there faster each day. I totally ignored the signs in the end. The situation has changed yesterday, there was really a lane reduction, speed limit 30(!!) and works at the guard railing ongoing.

I monitored a similar situation in early July. There was really a huge damage, lane reduction, but no roadworks. I don't know when the lane was closed but I saw a big meeting (> 20 persons, not workers) there after about 3-4 days. I was there for 10 days. The next to last day, works began.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I drove 6,600 kilometers through France and Spain in June. I passed through 4 roadworks. If you would drive such a distance through Germany, you would pass through 150 roadworks (this summer there were 300+ road works on 12500 km of Autobahn).
I drove less km in France this year but I saw much more roadworks. I would say about 30..40 construction sites (short-term or long-term) on 2,000km motorway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autostädter View Post
No. Motorways in the East are excellent throughout. Better than in the West, I'd say. The bad roads have disappeared long ago.
I drove almost all eastern Autobahns this summer. There are many (new) Autobahns in bad condition and should be renovated (e.g. sections on A4, A10, A11, A17,...) or are already u/c (e.g. sections on A12, A13, A15, A38,...). If they would not be renovated now they will have to be entirely renewed in 10..20 years. In addition(!), there are sections with 'concrete cancer' (Betonkrebs).

The desaster in western and southern Germany was caused by the German reunification. Required road works were skipped to have money for renovating and building roads in eastern Germany and the untended sections have to be totally renewed now because the damages cannot be repaired anymore. In addition, traffic volumes are much higher than expected - due to the German reunification and due to the change in central/eastern Europe.
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

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Old August 15th, 2015, 02:46 PM   #8115
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A23 Stör Bridge, Itzehoe

A recent (May) aerial photo of the new Stör Bridge near Itzehoe (northwest of Hamburg). The new bridge is part of a 7 kilometer project to construct the B5 into A23. The project duration is 9.5 years (January 2007 - June 2016).


Störbrücke Itzehoe by Jan Czonstke, on Flickr
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Old August 15th, 2015, 05:48 PM   #8116
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Tolles Foto

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A recent (May) aerial photo of the new Stör Bridge near Itzehoe (northwest of Hamburg). The new bridge is part of a 7 kilometer project to construct the B5 into A23. The project duration is 9.5 years (January 2007 - June 2016).


Störbrücke Itzehoe by Jan Czonstke, on Flickr
Thank you for this amazing photo
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Old August 15th, 2015, 09:07 PM   #8117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The new bridge is part of a 7 kilometer project to construct the B5 into A23. The project duration is 9.5 years (January 2007 - June 2016).


*I know that the construction time does not depend on its length, but here is really something wrong...
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Last edited by SRC_100; August 15th, 2015 at 09:12 PM.
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Old August 16th, 2015, 02:33 PM   #8118
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Truck toll

The total income of the truck toll was 4.46 billion € in 2014 (+ 53 million € compared to 2013; source). The system costs were 1.03 billion €, 3.431 billion € have been used for investment in:

- BVWP projects: 815 million €
* Autobahn: 639 million €
* B roads: 177 million €
- Preservation: 1.959 million €
* Autobahn: 1.721 million €
* B roads: 238 million €
- PPP: 163 million €
* Autobahn: 163 million €
* B roads: -
- Rest areas/noise prevention: 301 million €
* Autobahn: 103 million €
* B roads: -
- Traffic devices/facilities: 103 million €
* Autobahn: 103 million €
* B roads: -
- "Zweckausgabenpauschale"(I think it's planning costs): 90 million €
* Autobahn: 79 million €
* B roads: 12 million €


In total: 3.005 billion € for Autobahns and 426 million € for B roads.
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)
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Old August 16th, 2015, 02:49 PM   #8119
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Car toll

Info about the costs of the future expenses incurred (source):

The BAG has already ordered a specification about monitoring and penalization software (110,000 €).
The BAG has bought three cars to test the monitoring system (71,000 €).
The BAG personnel costs are 346,000 € up to now.
The BAG material costs are 17,000 € up to now (IT infrastructure).
Expertise about EU law: 26,300 €.
Estimation about share of cars which do not use federal roads: 14,280 €.
Check of car toll income prediction: 23,800 €.
Expertise about 'Die Infrastrukturabgabe und die Debatte über Ausländerdiskriminierung' (Infrastrucute toll and the dispute about discrimination of foreigners): 30,000 €.

EU commission was consulted when the car toll law was prepared.
It is currently not planned to have any negotiations/talks with the EU commission.
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)
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Old August 16th, 2015, 05:19 PM   #8120
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Liquid aluminium was spilled on A1 near Schwerte.

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