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Old September 2nd, 2015, 12:15 PM   #8161
g.spinoza
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Originally Posted by Des View Post
Construction started on the Oberau bypass between the A95 end and Garmisch. Includes a 3km long 2x2 tunnel and should be reasy in 2021.
I guess you mean re-started. It already started when I was living there but it was blocked when Munich lost the 2018 Winter Olympics bid in mid-2011.
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Old September 2nd, 2015, 12:16 PM   #8162
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Wow, it looks like a quite problematic situation. It's the main road between Central Europe and Denmark/Scandinavia.
I would imagine very serious traffic problems if that bridge will need to be closed for some time.
Yes, indeed, the bridge was entirely closed for a short time in 2013 and it was real chaos.
There is one bypass which uses the canal tunnel in Rendsburg (B77). But in the tunnel there are roadworks too, and will be for several years to come. So that was a real mess with 5 km long traffic jams in both directions in front of the tunnel entrances.
Other routes are the west coast route A23/B5/B200
Or via Kiel A215/B76.
Both routes experienced heavy congestion during closure of the A7.
It is not only the main connection for trucks from Central Europa to Scandinavia, but also for tourists. So every Saturday in summer time, it gets really crowded, even without roadworks.
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Old September 2nd, 2015, 06:34 PM   #8163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Des View Post
I'm not quite sure if this means they will actually extend the A95 or just move the current B road to a new alignment but it is good news anyway
It's a realignment of the B2 and will not be A95.

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Originally Posted by Isek View Post
There will be no extension of the A95. The design of the Oberau as well as Farchant bypass does not follow autobahn standards.
Please define "Autobahn standard". It's minimum like the new A281 in Bremen.

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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I guess you mean re-started. It already started when I was living there but it was blocked when Munich lost the 2018 Winter Olympics bid in mid-2011.
No, that's the 2-laned Kramertunnel in GAP .
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Old September 2nd, 2015, 06:51 PM   #8164
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No, that's the 2-laned Kramertunnel in GAP .
No, I'm pretty sure it was the Oberau bypass for two good reasons:

1- it's the first time I ever heard of the Kramertunnel

2- I just read that the Kramertunnel construction was stopped in 2012, nothing related to the Olympic bid.

I found this:
http://westumfahrung.blogspot.it/201...rarbeiten.html
http://westumfahrung.blogspot.it/201...ericht-im.html

They talk about preparatory works for the Oberau tunnel, which were indeed stopped in 2011 due to the lost Olympic bid (for 2022, not 2018)
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Old September 2nd, 2015, 08:58 PM   #8165
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
They talk about preparatory works for the Oberau tunnel, which were indeed stopped in 2011 due to the lost Olympic bid (for 2022, not 2018)
Sorry, I don't have my notebook with my project status list atm. After I submitted my reply, I remembered that "works" began for both tunnels. Oberau tunnel works were always declared as "preliminary works" but Kramer tunnel works were officially celebrated as groundbreaking (but works have been postponed).
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 06:33 PM   #8166
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Is it respected? In Italy that sign would be largely ignored.
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I don't think that it's respected.
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Probably in Poland would be installed speed camera




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Old September 3rd, 2015, 08:42 PM   #8167
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
The final section of A71 will be opened on 3rd September 2015 (source)!

A71: Etzleben – AS Sömmerda-East 11.4km (June 2010 to 3rd September 2015) – projectmap

And the A71 is completed! The last 11 km stretch was opened today.
Construction time: 1996 - 2015
Costs: around 2.5 billion €uro
Length: 220 km

It´s one of the most expensive Autobahns in Germany.





Don´t even ask...






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Old September 3rd, 2015, 08:43 PM   #8168
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Originally Posted by pmaciej7 View Post



Someone needs to forget an old tyre on top of that one
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 09:59 PM   #8169
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Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post
It´s one of the most expensive Autobahns in Germany.
Such claims are made for just about any motorway project these days.

€ 2.5 billion for 220 km of motorway is just € 11 million/km, which is not expensive at all. Some parts of A100 in Berlin are constructed at perhaps 10 times that cost.

Due to inflation, projects get more expensive in numbers every year. It's not right to compare the current cost with the same numbers 50 years ago and draw the conclusion it is more expensive. Such comparisons almost never take inflation into account.
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 10:40 PM   #8170
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A71: The hugh emptiness!

One of the most expensive German Autobahns and one of the most needless Autobahns. 40,000 vehicles per day were expected but only 13,000 vehicles/day pass the border b/n Thuringia and Bavaria. A 2+1 road had been sufficient.
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 10:49 PM   #8171
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That's your typical cherry picking in data. One segment has a low volume of 13,000, so that must mean the entire motorway is unnecessary and could've been a 2+1 road. In reality most of A71 carries more traffic than that and a 2+1 road would have meant a much slower trip and constant holdups on the single lane segments.

18,000 to 28,000 vehicles per day on a 2+1 road means a constant holdup of traffic on the single lane segments. Add some trucks to that, and you'll be driving mostly 80 km/h instead of 130+.
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 11:07 PM   #8172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
That's your typical cherry picking in data.
MY?

I never wrote A71 traffic would not justify Autobahn standard! I just quoted a damn stupid news article.

Of course it's total bullshit but that's what German media often does! On the other hand, the author quotes a former secretary of the Ministry of Interior (1991-98) who lives near A71 and fighted for the Autobahn that time:

Quote:
Lintner glaubt, "dass das womöglich auch absichtlich positiv geschätzt worden ist". Dass so was aber bestimmt nicht nur bei der A 71 so geschehen sei, sondern "für viele andere Projekte auch" gelte. Solche Prognosen, glaubt er wahrzunehmen, "sind immer ein Ratespiel". Und im Zweifelsfall falle das Raten eben "optimistisch" aus.

The former secretary thinks "that the estimation could have been too positive on purpose". This did not only happen for A71 but also "for many other projects". He thinks that these predictions are "always a wild guess". In case of doubts, they always guess "optimistic".
The section with the highest AADT 2010 was near Erfurt with 28,000 vehicles/day. Of course, 2+1 is not sufficient. A 2+1 bottleneck near the border would also be crap! And it was completed just today. Even 2015 AADT figures will not indicate if A71 justifies Autobahn standard on each section. Even if some sections will have an AADT < 20,000 in 2020 or 2030, A71 justifies Autobahn standard!
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Last edited by MichiH; September 3rd, 2015 at 11:12 PM.
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 11:11 PM   #8173
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I don't think he meant you in person, but used the English expression "that's your..."
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 11:13 PM   #8174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
MY?

I never wrote A71 traffic would not justify Autobahn standard! I just quoted a damn stupid news article.
Wow, easy

The word 'your' can also be used as a determiner. As in, that's not your average Autobahn. That doesn't mean you own it.
In this case, the typical cherry picking of data one may read in the media.
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Old September 4th, 2015, 12:12 AM   #8175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Such claims are made for just about any motorway project these days.

€ 2.5 billion for 220 km of motorway is just € 11 million/km, which is not expensive at all. Some parts of A100 in Berlin are constructed at perhaps 10 times that cost.

Due to inflation, projects get more expensive in numbers every year. It's not right to compare the current cost with the same numbers 50 years ago and draw the conclusion it is more expensive. Such comparisons almost never take inflation into account.

I hope you don´t criticise me because I only translate the German sources like a brainless bot.
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Old September 13th, 2015, 05:58 PM   #8176
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Shabby bridges on federal roads

The Green party asked about the status of bridges/viaducts on federal roads (Autobahns and B roads) in all states (except Schleswig-Holstein). It's a so-called "Kleine Anfrage" to the Bundesregierung (Federal Government) who has answered now. The summary is usually similar, just the number of bridges is different:
hib-Meldung vom 10.09.2015

538 Brücken in Bayern marode

In Bayern sind 47 Brückenbauwerke von insgesamt 10.914 Brücken im Zuge von Bundesfernstraßen in einem 'ungenügenden Zustand'. Das geht aus der Antwort der Bundesregierung (18/5845) auf eine Kleine Anfrage der Fraktion Bündnis 90/Die Grünen (18/5523) hervor. Bei diesen Brücken sind die Standsicherheit und/oder die Verkehrssicherheit erheblich beeinträchtigt oder nicht mehr gegeben.
Weitere 491 Brücken an Bundesfernstraßen sind in Bayern in 'nicht ausreichendem Zustand', heißt es weiter. An diesen Brücken müsse in 'näherer Zukunft' eine Instandsetzungsmaßnahme geplant werden.


538 briges are shabby in Bavaria.

47 out of 10,914 bridges on federal roads in Bavaria are in a 'fail status'. [...] Their stability or road safety is seriously affected or is lacking.
491 additional bridges on federal roads in Bavaria are in a 'insufficient status'. Renovations must be planned in the near future.

Summary (fail - insufficient - total):

Baden-Württemberg:
37 - 411 - 6062

Bavaria:
47 - 491 - 10914

Berlin:
3 - 9 - 256

Brandenburg:
13 - 32 - 1391

Bremen:
1 - 3 - 305

Hamburg:
2 - 16 - 264

Hesse:
37 - 357 - 4765

Lower Saxony:
8 - 174 - 343 (I guess it's a typo)

Mecklenburg-West Pomerania:
15 - 62 - 981

North Rhine-Westphalia:
21 - 216 - 6573

Rhineland-Palatinate:
32 - 205 - 4202

Saarland:
10 - 43 - 624

Saxony:
28 - 66 - 2014

Saxony-Anhalt:
22 - 57 - 1621

Schleswig-Holstein:
? - ? - ?

Thuringia:
2 - 26 - 1542

In total, 278 bridges are in fail status, their stability or road safety is seriously affected or is lacking. 2168 are in an insufficient status.
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Old September 13th, 2015, 09:54 PM   #8177
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The Green party asked about the status of bridges/viaducts on federal roads (Autobahns and B roads) in all states (except Schleswig-Holstein).
As we talk about federal roads here it really frightens me about numbers for communal roads which are serious affected, too. Always keeping in mind, that federal budget is still there, whereas communities are often bankrupt.
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Old September 14th, 2015, 05:24 PM   #8178
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B16 Dillingen

The new 9.4 km long B16 bypass of Dillingen in southern Germany opened to traffic today. Construction took a little over 3 years and has cost € 41 million.



It's a continuous set of bypasses along this stretch, the bypass of Gundelfingen and Lauingen opened circa 2002, according to historic Google Earth imagery. The next step would be a bypass of Höchstadt.
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Old September 14th, 2015, 05:51 PM   #8179
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The new 9.4 km long B16 bypass of Dillingen in southern Germany opened to traffic today. Construction took a little over 3 years and has cost € 41 million.
The opening cermony was today but the road will be opened for traffic tomorrow morning .

The B16 is a connection from Baden-Württemberg (Stuttgart/Ulm) to Czech Republic via Donauwörth, Ingolstadt, Regensburg and Cham. It has a length of more than 250km, the last 50km are B85/B20. Many upgrades are planned so that almost the entire 250km road should have 2+1 or 2x2 standard one day (2030/40?).

I think only the 30km section b/n Donauwörth and Neuburg is not (yet) planned to be upgraded. It had the lowest AADT in 2010: 7,000-12,000 vehicles/day but thereof about 1,800 trucks! There are also two short sections with 6,000-7,000 vehicles/day (~800/1,200 trucks) though.
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Old September 16th, 2015, 04:25 PM   #8180
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B207 widening

The B207 b/n the end of A1 at Heiligenhafen-East interchange end and the beginning of the future Fehmarnbelt tunnel near Puttgarden is planned to be widened to 2x2 lanes. B207 will get a motorway-like standard. The plan approval procedure began in October 2011, the plan approval order was passed on 31st August 2015. It was delayed because of the A20 court decision. Many documents had to be revised, there were two revisions (Planänderungsverfahren).

Schleswig-Hostein Minister of Transport, Mr. Meyer, announced that the Federal government (in German we just say "der Bund") has promised funding, that means, construction works can begin if there are no appeals against the plan approval order. See press release.

I read earlier that the construction period is about 3 or 3,5 years. The project is split into two sections with a 2.7km gap in between:

B207: AS Puttgarden – north of Fehmarnsund bridge 10.0km (2016? to 2020?) – ? – map (SH; plan approval: October 2011 – August 2015)
B207: Fehmarnsund crossing 2.7km (? to ?) – ? – map (SH; early planning stage)
B207: south of Fehmarnsund bridge – AS Heiligenhafen-East 6.3km (2016? to 2020?) – ? – map (SH; plan approval: October 2011 – August 2015)
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