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Old December 7th, 2015, 02:08 AM   #8341
Kanadzie
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I just imagine Herr Dobrint going off on a huge rant like the scene in Downfall (der Untergang)
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Old December 7th, 2015, 01:10 PM   #8342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
C'mon . I would expect a huge public outcry against that. A 120 km/h general speed limit? In Germany? Don't they have enough (in BW) with long stretches of A5, A8 and A81 restricted to 120?
It's just a stupid idea of a province minister. A Green one. I think Baden-Württemberg is very congested, so no one cares about this shit. Locals complain about noise protection (at A81, I'm not sure about A96). They are happy about the speed limit.

I take it with a pinch of salt but it would be different if the Federal Minister would introduce a study like this. But he already said that the study is not legal.......

There's a state's election next March. That means a new Minister could stop the study (which is announced to begin in May). But the Green party + SPD still have a better vote share (43%) like CDU party (37%) at the moment (see opinion poll). The new Baden-Württemberg government depends on if the smaller parties will join the new parliament: liberal party (FDP), left wing (Linke), right wing (AfD).

Sit and wait.....
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Old December 7th, 2015, 01:59 PM   #8343
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The A96 the newest motorway in BW, and it's definitely the one (along with A6) where you can drive faster because there's little traffic. I shot this video in 2013, at the beginning of a holiday weekend. Traffic on A7 was a chaos; it took me more than 1 hour to get from Illertissen to AK Memmingen (30 km). But on A96 I could drive 150-160 km/h just going with the flow of traffic. It runs throgh a very rural area with only little villages around, and there's extensive noise protection such as sound barriers and all -so I think a speed limit there would be downright pointless.

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Old December 7th, 2015, 03:08 PM   #8344
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The A96 the newest motorway in BW, and it's definitely the one (along with A6) where you can drive faster
I agree about A96 (AADT 2010 30..40,000 vehicles/day; truck share 11..13%) but A6... It's one of the most congested Autobahns in BaWü. The truck share is quite high. 60,000 - 90,000 vehicles/day in 2010 b/n Mannheim and Heilbronn (2x3, partial still 2x2). Truck share 11..22%. East of Heilbronn, it's 2x2 and just 48,000 - 60,000; 23..28% truck share. Of course, you can drive there 200+ depending on the time of day or day of year...

The 2nd study section on A81 b/n Bad Dürrheim and Hegau had an AADT 2010 of 36,000 vehicles/day with a truck share of about 10% only.

I think dynamic speed limits are required (for almost the entire German Autobahn network) but no general speed limit.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 08:56 PM   #8345
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There's a 32km gap on A7 b/n Soltau and AD Walsrode which features 2x2 lanes only (with temporary shoulder running though). The plan approval procedure for a 2x3 upgrade of the southernmost 8km section (map) b/n Bad Fallingbostel and AD Walsrode (A27) began in September 2012, the order has been passed on 4th August 2015. The order is legal since 22nd October 2015 and the preliminary construction works officially began today because the road surface is in a very bad condition, see press release.

The project was not contained in the funding list published last July.
The remaining two sections (14.7km + 9.5km) are in an early planning stage, see project page.


The A4/A7 AD Kirchheim will be reconstructed by 2023. Preliminary works begin now, see press release (layout; map).
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Old December 7th, 2015, 09:21 PM   #8346
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Bundesverkehrswegeplan 2015

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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
It was originally planned to publish the draft of the new "Bundesverkehrswegeplan 2015" (Federal road demand plan) in early 2015 (2012 version). This was delayed to Mid of 2015, fall 2015, October, November, December 2015 and it's know annouced that it is delayed by some weeks because it should be published together with the "Strategische Umweltprüfung" (strategical environmental audit). See news article and a press release of the Green Baden-Württemberg Minister of Transport commenting the delay.

The next farce of Mr. Dobrindt..... After the infamous car toll debate.......
Die Welt reports that the draft should be published in late January or early February. They claim that the delay is inofficially because of Mr. Dobrindt is currently not happy about the plan. In addition, it's reported that the improvement of the infrastructure in Northern Germany should obtain priority.

The Rhineland-Palatinate** Minister of transport complains in a press release that:

Quote:
Die Menschen sollten noch vor den anstehenden Landtagswahlen im März wissen, wie die Planungen der wichtigsten verkehrspolitischen Projekte aussehen
People should know the projects of the transport policy prior to the upcoming regional elections in March.
** There are regional elections in Baden-Württemberg and Rhineland-Palatinate in March 2016. Both current governments are green/red.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 11:18 PM   #8347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I agree about A96 (AADT 2010 30..40,000 vehicles/day; truck share 11..13%) but A6... It's one of the most congested Autobahns in BaWü. The truck share is quite high. 60,000 - 90,000 vehicles/day in 2010 b/n Mannheim and Heilbronn (2x3, partial still 2x2). Truck share 11..22%. East of Heilbronn, it's 2x2 and just 48,000 - 60,000; 23..28% truck share. Of course, you can drive there 200+ depending on the time of day or day of year...

The 2nd study section on A81 b/n Bad Dürrheim and Hegau had an AADT 2010 of 36,000 vehicles/day with a truck share of about 10% only.

I think dynamic speed limits are required (for almost the entire German Autobahn network) but no general speed limit.
A6 in Eastern BW is quiet. Between Mannheim and Heilbronn is definitely busy, and a long 2x3 section East of Sinsheim is restricted to 120 km/h due to narrow shoulders.
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Old December 8th, 2015, 03:26 PM   #8348
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A6 between Heilbronn and Nürnberg bottoms out near 50,000 vehicles per day, but with a high truck share. I wouldn't call it a 'quiet' Autobahn, but it's not super congested either. There isn't as much commuter or holiday traffic on that route.
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Old December 8th, 2015, 06:13 PM   #8349
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why 120? Spain is the same and it irritates really much as you pay for it. If Germany makes that I'd feel bad. Bremen introduced it for better ecology stats. I guess 130 is optimum limit.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 08:18 PM   #8350
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If ever a general speed limit on motorways was introduced in Germany, the political party who will be responisible for that will be ruined, and the minister of traffic will have to hide in exile in Russia.

Seriously, the non-existence of a general speed limit on motorways is religion in Germany.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 08:27 PM   #8351
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But what about leaving out a general speed limit, but limiting the motorway network step by step in time? People won't notice it, maybe even get used to it.
Isn't this what's actually happening?
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Old December 9th, 2015, 08:39 PM   #8352
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Baden-Württemberg Minister of Transport, Mr. Hermann, showed off today that I made a great job during the last 4 years, see press release.

He claims that the speed limit test is not installed to introduce a general speed limit!

Quote:
Neben vielen anderen Aktivitäten gehöre dazu auch der auf 3 Jahre angelegte Pilotversuch mit Tempo 120 auf 2 Autobahnabschnitten im Land, der keineswegs als Einstieg in ein generelles Tempolimit angelegt sei.
Not "angelegt" (= planned) but... it could develop....

The press release also features a link to a "speed limit study FAQ": > click <.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 10:12 PM   #8353
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"Niemand hat die Absicht, eine Mauer zu errichten."
"Nobody has the intention to build a wall."
Walter Ulbricht, 1961.


Only a few days later, the wall was there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx
But what about leaving out a general speed limit, but limiting the motorway network step by step in time? People won't notice it, maybe even get used to it.
Isn't this what's actually happening?
Quite on the contrary, in Lower-Saxony, speed limits have been removed, both on A7 and on A2. some time ago.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 10:17 PM   #8354
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The same happened in Hesse a couple of years ago.
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Old December 10th, 2015, 04:18 PM   #8355
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http://www.regierung-mv.de/Aktuell?i...essemitteilung

^Press release concerning the opening of VKE 7, part of the A14 (Kreuz Schwerin - Grabow) on the 21st of december.
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Old December 10th, 2015, 11:08 PM   #8356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post

New B roads and B road bypasses:
http://www.haz.de/Hannover/Aus-der-R...19-fertig-sein

B3: Hemmingen bypass 7.5 km ( ? to 14th August of 2019)

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Old December 11th, 2015, 10:19 PM   #8357
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New A20 in Schleswig-Holstein

It was reported that the plan approval order for the A20 Elbe tunnel section is challenged. It's section no. 8 in Schleswig-Holstein. In addition, funding is unclear (toll?, PPP?,....). The order of the infamous section no. 3 was challenged too. This court decision delayed a lot of projects - for instance A20 sections no. 3 to 8 - because many documents had to be modified to fulfill the critized issues.

It was announced that the plan approval orders for A20 sections 3, 4, 5 and 6 should be passed in 2016, the section no. 7 order was announced to be passed in 2015 though.

It's the section b/n the Elbe tunnel section from B431 near Glücksstadt to the future A23 interchange (map). The section length is 15.2km, the estimated costs are 172 million €. The plan approval procedure began in December 2007. The first plan supplemention procedure began in April 2013 (that means some important documents were modified and they were outlayed again), the second plan supplemention procedure began in July 2015. It was announced today, that a third plan supplemention procedure is required which will delay the procedure by minimum 2 years.

I'll try to explain the delay: Eagles, white-tailed eagles, an aries (Seeadlerhorst).

Some guys of nature conservation organisations and authorities have seen one single aries of white-tailed eagles in a nature reserve close to the future A20 route last spring. The aries was empty during this summer and fall though. Anyway, a white-tailed eagle was seen last spring, that means, that the area has a hatchery status for 3 years now which is protected by law! That means, the area must be investigated to ensure that white-tailed eagles will not suffer due to the future A20.

This delay means, that other documents must be revised too. The traffic forecasting must be renewed based on 2030 prediction and a mapping of breeding birds, fishes, bats, hazel dormouse, amphibians, reptiles, dragonflies and running water organisms must be done.

See press release.
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Last edited by MichiH; December 11th, 2015 at 10:27 PM.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 10:40 PM   #8358
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A143 Halle bypass

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An alternative route was found. It's longer, will carry less cars and will cost more:

Source: Volksstimme

The currently planned route costs 240 million €. The alternative route would cost 175 million € in addition. The currently planned route would be used by 4,000 to 6,000 vehicles more. The alternative route must be analyzed more detailed now. In best case, EU could approve the planning documents in 2016, groundbreaking in 2017, completion 2020.

It's just because the current route would pass a FFH area. It must be verified that there is no proper alternative route.
It's reported that a solution was found. They modified the plans so that there is no need that the documents must be checked by EU. For instance, they've extended a tunnel from 250m to 300m. The construction costs are just 5 million € higher than the formerly announced 240 million € for the 12.4km section (map). The plan approval order from May 2005 was challenged, a new plan approval procedure was required which began in September 2009. The previous time schedule is confirmed too (construction period 2017-2020). See news article.

I don't understand how a simple 50m extension of a tunnel can solve the problem and why this solution was not found much earlier .
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Old December 11th, 2015, 11:51 PM   #8359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
But what about leaving out a general speed limit, but limiting the motorway network step by step in time? People won't notice it, maybe even get used to it.
Isn't this what's actually happening?

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Old December 12th, 2015, 11:01 AM   #8360
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New A20 in Schleswig-Holstein

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I'll try to explain the delay: Eagles, white-tailed eagles, an aries (Seeadlerhorst).

Some guys of nature conservation organisations and authorities have seen one single aries of white-tailed eagles in a nature reserve close to the future A20 route last spring. The aries was empty during this summer and fall though. Anyway, a white-tailed eagle was seen last spring, that means, that the area has a hatchery status for 3 years now which is protected by law! That means, the area must be investigated to ensure that white-tailed eagles will not suffer due to the future A20.

This delay means, that other documents must be revised too. The traffic forecasting must be renewed based on 2030 prediction and a mapping of breeding birds, fishes, bats, hazel dormouse, amphibians, reptiles, dragonflies and running water organisms must be done.

See press release.
The aeries is near an excavated lake which is 300m beside the future A20 route. 5 million cubic meter sand are needed for the construction of the A20. The sand is planned to be digged near the excavated lake area. The lake was formed because of the A23 construction decades ago. It's a nature reserve now. See news article (2).

The first news article reports that the A20 route must be changed if white-tailed eagles will be spot again but I'm not sure if that's true because I understand the article that the sand digging is the main problem........
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