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Old February 19th, 2016, 11:53 AM   #8461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Apart from all the politial, etc. arguments, the reunification of Berlin had astronomical costs even without constructing a brand new highway in the middle of the city. Berlin has debts of approx. 60 bn €.
The Federal government is paying for the A100 extension to Treptower Park, aren't they? In this case, they would surely pay up for the further extension.

Edit : just checked, and yes, they've funded it 100%. The cost is around 480 million Euro for 3.2km - so it's not that much. The 2015 Federal Infrastructure Plan suggests that the extension to Storkower Strasse will cost around 550 million, so it's possible financially. Really - 2 billion Euro would cover the entire section to Michelangelostrasse - which would complete the ring. Come on Germany, get on with it!

Last edited by Eulanthe; February 19th, 2016 at 12:19 PM.
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Old February 19th, 2016, 12:22 PM   #8462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Apart from all the political, etc. arguments, the reunification of Berlin had astronomical costs even without constructing a brand new highway in the middle of the city. Berlin has debts of approx. 60 bn €.
And you only need to look at a map of the Berlin Wall to appreciate that it would have been very difficult to convert it into a highway. The area inside the current A100 was full of corners of 90 degrees or less, nothing like the gentle curves that you need in order to build a motorway. At times the River Spree was part of the border too. Even if you managed to overcome that somehow (including finding a solution for the Brandenburger Tor), on the map it seems like a far from efficient route from the A100 ring road into more central parts of town.

Outside of the A100, the story is somewhat different. The current A113 was built in the area where the Wall used to be, to form the link between the A100/Southern Berlin and the A10-South. Something comparable could have been done on the Northern side of the A100. But the A100 and Northern Berlin already had good existing links with the A10-North, being the A111 and A114. So it made little sense to even consider. The fact that, in this part of town, the Wall followed a train line that continued to operate (and regained importance post-1989) won't have helped either.
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Old February 19th, 2016, 03:36 PM   #8463
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As far as I know it's pretty uncommon for Autobahn projects to be co-funded from state or district sources. Usually the federal government covers the entire construction cost, but some states have said that federal funding for the planning process is insufficient.
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Old February 19th, 2016, 04:37 PM   #8464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
I really wonder why they didn't take advantage of the Wall removal to build a highway... they could have made a huge Hwy-401 style route through central Berlin no problem. Of course probably a more well-integrated road (typical urban motorway) would be better to stop blocking the city apart, but still, all the land was there...
You can devastate your cities in north America with massive highways if you like. But spare the rest of the world such a wasteful, expensive and ultimately disruptive solutions.
In the reunification process several rail lines were built or re-built instead. More of them are yet to come. All these projects were/are expensive enough. But unlike a highway they do at least fit into the urban fabric of the city.
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Old February 20th, 2016, 01:17 AM   #8465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
I really wonder why they didn't take advantage of the Wall removal to build a highway... they could have made a huge Hwy-401 style route through central Berlin no problem. Of course probably a more well-integrated road (typical urban motorway) would be better to stop blocking the city apart, but still, all the land was there...

I am really glad that the people in power in Berlin then and now don't seem to share your foolish idea...

Not sure what would be so great on defacing a historic city with a monster of urban motorway as Hwy-401

Luckily some people can think of better use of space than just wasting it for cars...
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Old February 20th, 2016, 09:09 AM   #8466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Most of my drives in Germany are during the weekend, but I'm always amazed by the huge amount of traffic jams on Saturdays and Sundays. The Netherlands has very little congestion during the weekend, unless there's some major incident or road closure.
But the Dutch motorway network has almost double the capacity of the German ones. A 2-lane motorway in Germany would have 3 lanes in the Netherlands. A 3-lane motorway would have 4 or even 5 lanes.
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Old February 20th, 2016, 01:53 PM   #8467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
west side of the Berliner Ring, next to the junction of the A10/B5. Got on the Berliner Ring to return to Wrocław, and... what the hell is this? No hard shoulder? Only two lanes? A lot of traffic? Err...
There are not 2 lanes but 2x2 lanes with median! AADT 2010 was just between 28,000 and 35,000 vehicles/day on A10 b/n A24 and A2. Truck share was almost 20% though. However, 2x3 widening is still planned.
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Old February 20th, 2016, 02:14 PM   #8468
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A44 Kassel - Eisenach

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Good news. The u/c sections of A44 Kassel - Eisenach are on schedule ("voll im Zeitplan")!

Quote:
A44: AS Hessisch Lichtenau-East – Hasselbach 4.3km (September 2010 to 2016) – projectmap
A44 b/n Helsa-East and Hessisch Lichtenau-West is announced to be opened in 2019.

Source.

Tunnel excavation of 'Tunnel Hirschhagen' (4.2km; south of Helsa) is announced to be completed in Mid 2016 (3.1km of the tubes are already bored).

Note: The quoted completion dates (2016/18) were announced in early 2013.
The tunnel breakthrough of the A44 Tunnel Hirschhagen was last week. Tunnel costs are about 250 million €. The entire 6km section is to be completed by late 2019. Total costs: 324 million €. See press release.

The discussion about the last A44 section w/o building permit b/n A7 and Hesla i/c (~11km) is continuing. The so-called "H" route is discussed again (red):

Source: HNA.

A study about the expected A7 AADT with the green route was recently published. The predicted AADT 2030 b/n Kassel-East and Kassel-South is 108,000 vehicles/day, thereof 32,000 trucks. It would be 106,000 vehicles/day only if the A44 would not be built. It's planned to be widened the A7 to 2x4 lanes. Noise protection walls are alreaday u/c since November 2011. See news article.
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Old February 20th, 2016, 05:57 PM   #8469
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The red route makes more sense.
It´s surely much more expensive but to connect the A44 with the new stretch of the A44 is so obvious that I cant´t even imagine why someone came up with the green route?!
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Old February 20th, 2016, 06:11 PM   #8470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post
I cant´t even imagine why someone came up with the green route?!
Because it's most likely cheaper, uses less land, goes along an established corridor (sound etc) and also takes on the load of the B7 along its route?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
AADT 2010 was just between 28,000 and 35,000 vehicles/day on A10 b/n A24 and A2. Truck share was almost 20% though. However, 2x3 widening is still planned.
... for 28,000 vehicles? If we calculate like that I know a couple A routes in the west that could use some 2x10 widening...
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Old February 20th, 2016, 06:24 PM   #8471
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If the figures are correct:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
The predicted AADT 2030 b/n Kassel-East and Kassel-South is 108,000 vehicles/day, thereof 32,000 trucks. It would be 106,000 vehicles/day only if the A44 would not be built.
it means the east-west through traffic is almost nothing* so it's not a big deal to not have a direct connection, the other named factors become more important.

*on A44-east. I guess most of the E-W traffic to Lepizig uses and will use A38, which means it will be using that stretch of A7 anyway.
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Old February 20th, 2016, 07:30 PM   #8472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post

The red route makes more sense.
It´s surely much more expensive but to connect the A44 with the new stretch of the A44 is so obvious that I cant´t even imagine why someone came up with the green route?!
Nature protection . It was reported last November that 10 years would be lost for additional planning activity. Source. Of course, costs would increase in 10 years too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kato2k8 View Post
Because it's most likely cheaper, uses less land, goes along an established corridor (sound etc) and also takes on the load of the B7 along its route?
It's 415 (red) compared to 385 million € (green) but the costs of the green route have to be updated. There's also a "Söhre" route which would cost 667 million €. Source.

There are a lot of documents on the project page (it's section VKE11). For instance, there's a variant comparison (October 2015 variant). The green route of the previous map is the only variant which is really examined. It's the red(!) route in the variant comparison and it's split into variant 0.0, 0.1, 1.1, 1.2, 2.1, 2.2, 3.1, 3.2, 4.1, 4.2, 5.1 and 5.2. The red route of the previous map is variant 7 (green), the Söhre variant is no. 6 (blue).

As mentioned before, a lot of discussion. The remaining A44 sections b/n Kassel and Eisenach are completed, u/c or construction works are announced to begin in 2016. A 9km section near Sontra has funding for preliminary works only. It was announced that works should begin there in 2017.

A44: AD Kassel-East (A7) – AS Helsa-East 11.3km (? to ?) – projectmap

A44: AS Helsa-East – AS Hessisch Lichtenau-West 6.1km (May 2010 to Late 2019) – projectmap
A44: AS Hessisch Lichtenau-West – AS Hessisch Lichtenau-Center 2.2km (April 2008 to 24th July 2014) – projectmap
A44: AS Hessisch Lichtenau-Center – AS Hessisch Lichtenau-East 4.4km (2000/01 to 6th October 2005) – projectmap
A44: AS Hessisch Lichtenau-East – Hasselbach 4.3km (September 2010 to 2017) – projectmap
A44: Hasselbach – AS Waldkappel 6.9km (March 2011 to 2017) – projectmap

A44: AS Waldkappel – AS Ringgau 7.9km (Summer 2016 to Mid 2020) – projectmap
A44: AS Ringgau – AS Sontra-West ~4km (June 2016 to 2022) – projectmap
A44: AS Sontra-West – AS Sontra-Ost ~9km (2017 to ?) – projectmap
A44: AS Sontra-Ost – AD Wommen (A4) ~7.5km (>= 2016 to ?) – projectmap
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Old February 21st, 2016, 12:00 AM   #8473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
There are not 2 lanes but 2x2 lanes with median! AADT 2010 was just between 28,000 and 35,000 vehicles/day on A10 b/n A24 and A2. Truck share was almost 20% though. However, 2x3 widening is still planned.
A1 between intersections Erfttal and Cologne West has approx. 50,000, A59 between Cologne and Bonn 80-90,000, A61 between Meckenheim and Mending approx. 60,000, etc., etc. What about widenings?
(And I didn't say A565 which could only be widened by astronomical costs...).
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Old February 21st, 2016, 11:02 AM   #8474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
A1 between intersections Erfttal and Cologne
West has approx. 50,000,
AADT 2010, BVWP 2003 category, preliminary BVWP 2015 draft

AK Köln-West (A 4) – AS Frechen (104) 83000 / 10043 (12,1%) (2x2, 0.9km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)
AS Frechen (104) – AS Gleuel (105) 57600 / 7949 (13,8%) (2x2, 4.3km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)
AS Gleuel (105) – AS Hürth (106) 54700 / 8260 (15,1%) (2x2, 5.0km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)
AS Hürth (106) – AD Erfttal (A 61) 48900 / 6650 (13,6%) (2x2, 3.8km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
A59 between Cologne and Bonn 80-90,000,
AD Köln-Heumar (A 3/A 4) – AS Köln-Rath (32) 63500 / 5144 (8.1%) (2x2, 1.8km, BVWP 2003: -, BVWP 2015: -)
AS Köln-Rath (32) – AD Köln-Porz (A 559) 47100 / 3768 (8.0%) (2x2, 0.4km, BVWP 2003: -, BVWP 2015: -)
AD Köln-Porz (A 559) – AS Flughafen Köln/Bonn (34) 94500 / 7182 (7.6%) (2+3 3 northbound lanes, 2.8km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening urgent demand, plan approval procedure began in October 2012, BVWP 2015: 2x4 widening (I guess it's a typo though))
AS Flughafen Köln/Bonn (34) – AS Köln-Wahn (35) 95000 / 7125 (7.5%) (2+3 3 northbound lanes, 2.5km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening urgent demand, BVWP 2015: 6-/7-laned widening)
AS Köln-Wahn (35) – AS Köln-Lind (36) 88000 / 6688 (7.6%) (2x2, 2.1km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening urgent demand, BVWP 2015: 6-/7-laned widening)
AS Köln-Lind (36) – AS Spich (37) 85600 / 5564 (6.5%) (2x2, 3.4km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening urgent demand, BVWP 2015: 6-/7-laned widening)
AS Spich (37) – AS Troisdorf (38) 71000 / 4686 (6.6%) (2x2, 2.0km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening urgent demand, BVWP 2015: 6-/7-laned widening)
AS Troisdorf (38) – AD Sankt Augustin-West (A 560) 91000 / 5915 (6.5%) (2x2, 2.1km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening urgent demand, BVWP 2015: 6-/7-laned widening)
AD Sankt Augustin-West (A 560) – AD Bonn-Nordost (A 565) 115900 / 6259 (5.4%) (2x3, 3.1km, BVWP 2003: 2x4 widening urgent demand, plan approval procedure began in February 2016, construction start: >= 2020, construction period 2 years, costs: 62 million €, BVWP 2015: 2x4 widening)
AD Bonn-Nordost (A 565) – AS Bonn-Vilich (41) 84500 / 3380 (4.0%) (2x3, 1.5km, BVWP 2003: -, BVWP 2015: adding hard shoulders)
AS Bonn-Vilich (41) – AS Bonn-Pützchen (42) 88400 / 3536 (4.0%) (2x3, 0.8km, BVWP 2003: -, BVWP 2015: adding hard shoulders)
AS Bonn-Pützchen (42) – AK Bonn-Ost (A 562) 64300 / 2251 (3.5%) (2x3, 2.7km, BVWP 2003: -, BVWP 2015: adding hard shoulders)

There's a news article from 16th February. It's reported that the last widening section (b/n A559 and A565) should be completed by Mid of 2020th (at the earliest).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
A61 between Meckenheim and Mending approx. 60,000, etc., etc. What about widenings?
AK Bliesheim (A 1) – AS Weilerswist (25) 57100 / 12105 (21,2%) (2x2, 3.9km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)
AS Weilerswist (25) – AS Swisttal (26) 56300 / 12105 (21,5%) (2x2, 4.3km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)
AS Swisttal (26) – AS Miel (27) 45500 / 11148 (24,5%) (2x2, 4.4km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)
AS Miel (27) – AS Rheinbach (28) 45500 / 10511 (23,1%) (2x2, 8.1km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)
AS Rheinbach (28) – AK Meckenheim (A 565) 46100 / 11341 (24,6%) (2x2, 4.8km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)
AK Meckenheim (A 565) – AD Bad Neuenahr-Ahrweiler (A 573) 70700 / 13574 (19,2%) (2+3 3 northbound lanes, 6.6km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)
AD Bad Neuenahr-Ahrweiler (A 573) – AD Sinzig (A 571) 59000 / 12862 (21,8%) (2x2, 7.6km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)
AD Sinzig (A 571) – AS Niederzissen (32) 57200 / 12184 (21,3%) (2+3 3 southbound lanes, 8.2km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)
AS Niederzissen (32) – AS Wehr (33) 59900 / 13238 (22,1%) (2+3 3 southbound lanes, 6.9km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)
AS Wehr (33) – AS Mendig (34) 61300 / 13302 (21,7%) (2+3 3 northbound lanes, 3.7km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)
AS Mendig (34) – AS Kruft (35) 49300 / 11684 (23,7%) (2+3 3 northbound lanes, 5.7km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)
AS Kruft (35) – AS Plaidt (36) 46600 / 10392 (22,3%) (2x2, 3.5km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)
AS Plaidt (36) – AK Koblenz (A 48) 46000 / 10442 (22,7%) (2x2, 7.9km, BVWP 2003: 2x3 widening additional demand, BVWP 2015: 2x3 widening)
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Old February 21st, 2016, 04:22 PM   #8475
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OK, MichiH, you won :-)
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Old February 21st, 2016, 04:32 PM   #8476
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No, I didn't win. I just specified some facts to answer your question...
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Old February 21st, 2016, 09:31 PM   #8477
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It was recorded even before a long-term expansion in Kirchheim.


A reconstruction near Friedewald, which still continues and more.
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Old February 21st, 2016, 11:32 PM   #8478
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Does anyone know why the A1 between the A57 intersection and the exit Köln Bocklemünd / Pulheim has 4 lanes in one direction (North/South) and only 3 in the other direction?
There was construction for a long time there. Was it that difficult to add a 4th lane also towards Leverkusen? It certainly does not look like a terrible challenge. There is always traffic in that direction caused by the crappy interchange and the limited but annoying reduction to 2 lanes for the length of the interchange.
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Old February 23rd, 2016, 10:38 PM   #8479
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More cracks appeared at the A1 Rhine River Bridge at Leverkusen. The Rheinische Post reports that the crack is 'as wide as a hand' in a main beam.

http://www.rp-online.de/nrw/staedte/...-aid-1.5788906

This suggests the bridge is in a really critical condition, considering it continues to develop cracks, despite vehicles over 3.5 tonnes having been banned from the bridge since 2014. The article says that there is no guarantee how the bridge could remain open to traffic. It carries 120,000 vehicles per day (somewhat less with the truck ban in place).
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Old February 24th, 2016, 12:56 AM   #8480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
More cracks appeared at the A1 Rhine River Bridge at Leverkusen. The Rheinische Post reports that the crack is 'as wide as a hand' in a main beam.

http://www.rp-online.de/nrw/staedte/...-aid-1.5788906

This suggests the bridge is in a really critical condition, considering it continues to develop cracks, despite vehicles over 3.5 tonnes having been banned from the bridge since 2014. The article says that there is no guarantee how the bridge could remain open to traffic. It carries 120,000 vehicles per day (somewhat less with the truck ban in place).
How old is that bridge?
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