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Old March 22nd, 2016, 08:49 PM   #8521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spam King View Post
There needs to be a distance based toll on all non-German vehicles using Autobahns, not just trucks.

Of course, bullshit EU law won't allow that.
The impact of non-EU traffic is small, the impact of cars on road degradation is 3 orders of magnitude lower than trucks. Foreign-vehicle tolls would not raise money needed to pay for road infrastructure. Not by a stretch.
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 10:07 PM   #8522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spam King View Post
There needs to be a distance based toll on all non-German vehicles using Autobahns, not just trucks.

Of course, bullshit EU law won't allow that.
Why non-German?
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 10:11 PM   #8523
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Because why avoiding a discrimination when you can introduce it?
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 10:37 PM   #8524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
According to Bloomberg the maintenance deficit in Germany,just across roads and rail, will cost a full Quarter €Trillion to sort out by 2030

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...n-traffic-jams
It's a planned 264.5 billion € investment for roads, rail and waterways, thereof 69% for maintenance (182 billion €), see press release.
49.4% are for roads (130 billion €), 41.3% for railways (109 billion €) and 9.3% for waterways (25 billion €).

226 billion € are assigned to new projects (VB-E and VB), 38 billion € are used for ongoing projects or refunding (FD).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Germany was a country, like the US, that did infrastructure well. The poisonous Greens have all but destroyed that capability.
Sorry, I don't understand your statement. German Greens want to maintain existing roads (and widen transit routes) but they don't what to build new roads or widen regional roads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spam King View Post
There needs to be a distance based toll on all non-German vehicles using Autobahns, not just trucks.

Of course, bullshit EU law won't allow that.
I'm happy that it's currently unlikely that Germany will pass a bullshit law like you are asking for! And there is definitely no context to the Bundesverkehrswegeplan.
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Old March 23rd, 2016, 12:03 AM   #8525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Germany was a country, like the US, that did infrastructure well. The poisonous Greens have all but destroyed that capability.
Sorry, I don't understand your statement. German Greens want to maintain existing roads (and widen transit routes) but they don't what to build new roads or widen regional roads.
I was talking about the green political party, Alliance '90/The Greens = Bündnis 90/Die Grünen. I agree if you are talking about the so-called conservationists, animal-rights activists, anti-globalization activists, anti-nuclear activists, environmental activists et cetera, or simply NIMBYs.
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Old March 23rd, 2016, 01:32 AM   #8526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spam King View Post
There needs to be a distance based toll on all non-German vehicles using Autobahns, not just trucks.

Of course, bullshit EU law won't allow that.
If Germany just reduced fuel taxes to the level of neighboring countries then they would receive equal taxes from these drivers

If Germany reduced fuel taxes below that of neighboring countries they would get even extra revenue from foreign traffic that will always make sure to tank im Deutschland.

But instead the knee-jerk reaction is always to take the manner most complicated and that hurts people the most...
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Old March 23rd, 2016, 01:41 AM   #8527
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If they'd simply just invest more in the infrastructure instead of finding another way to get more money out of people (no matter foreign or 'their own') , its not like they don't have the money, Germany had a budget surplus of 12 billion euros last year...

But no, they want to show off that they have a nice budget surplus whilst ruining their infrastructure.
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Old March 23rd, 2016, 02:15 AM   #8528
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There are two things i like to mention.

Directly in topic (a shame i know

The categorisation in the Bundesverkehrswegeplan is often well sh*** ähm i mean not giving an indication if something might happen or not. And of course not if something is really necessary. To give some examples from my state saxony:

What is useful but not included:
The plan includes the widening of A4 btw Nossen and Dresden in the category "no necessity". The widening of A72 btw Chemnitz and Zwickau also. This are almost the only pieces of road in saxony which are really crowdy. It was mentioned before that over decades germany preferred projects in the east in disfavour of western needs. But what this new crappy plan includes are many rbypasses without any real use. I agree that it is bad for people, if much traffic including heavy trucks is using city centre. And i also agree that there are much bigger traffic jams in the west. I do like to mention that after finishing of A72 north to Leipzig there wont be any motorway project in saxony at all until the next plan might come up.

What is useless (in comparison) but included as important:
the bypass of Reizenhain close to the czech border or the bypass of a part of krauschwitz known as biggest village of saxony (by square kilometers). Its so "big" because there are so low amount of small villages who are all united to this new one.

What you can never influence: lawcases etc.
what did not happen, but necessary:
The bypass of Flöha part II is still waiting, the bypass of freiberg as well. The need of the first was very clear as the old B-raod was unusable in flooding cases, and is not an unimportant B-road (as there are many existing). But fought by greens and blocked by court several times. The second is a bypass to a bigger city, but there are bats living there. Several villages with some thousand inhabitants got an bypass, but freiberg with 40k did not get it.

In the mean time several other projects were realized which were not as important. And years went by....

The plan itself is just unreliable. The new idea was to prioritize the projects supported by the states, but even this went wrong as i mentioned, otherwise small roads in the middle of nowhere would never win over motorway expansion. (expansion not new bulding!)

In fact the idea that the central authorities must be stronger against the idea that every local politician wants his pojects to be done is correct and necessary. But i am very disappointed about the outcome which seems to be contradictory. Also the plan is just a plan without any financial support. It is said, that there is money in the budget in following years. But after election this can change. no money is really reserved for the future. Maybe we need a road authority or something like that, i don't know how to solve this stupid localisms.


Second, according the road tax (of any kind) for motor vehicles:
It is true that trucks degenerate roads much much much more than cars do. So a road tax might not be fair in this way. But it might put in peoples minds that roads are not just there for fun. So if this remembering hint is necessary is a political question.

A road tax just for cars from outside of germany would probably coast as much as the revenue is. If there is anything left it won't be any substantial amount. But i also regret the stupid EU-regulation. It is said, that its discrimination of foreign people. But we pay taxes for our roads they don't. So thats something i just don't get in my mind. In fact right now germans are discriminated, because they pay for something others use for free. But still, the numbers tell that even if possible, a tax for foreigners won't help much.

One could also rise the tax for trucks. But this is not well liked, as it might strangle economy at a given point. Where this point occurs is discussed and you only learn it, when it happens.

The fact, that the whole society pays taxes for roads, whilst not all benefit the same way is the major problem in background. As i mentioned before i know people in big cities which don't own a car anymore. At the flat land thats impossible. The public transport does not bring you to all places at all, or in a useful timeframe. Additionally the price of public transport rises faster than the price for using the car.

So the problem is: If much people use public transport it gets cheaper. But nobody makes any policy in this direction. The car-owners have a big lobby, these who don't have not. The money in the plan does prefer rail freight, not public transport (but even tehre its crap. I told that one of the bottlenecks in saxonian freight rail transport is the connection dresden-prague, because there are no alternatives etc etc. this is "additional demand" but well). Who are those non or small car users? Well the young, the old and the poor. If you are old you don't get easily anywhere. This is in comparison the biggest problem, because the society ages fast, as we know. So this group is growing. And I like to mention the discussins about the fact that old people never loose their drivers licence in germany unless until they cause an accident. If you don't want to steal them their mobility there is a need for alternatives. Also there are those who loose their car because of unemployment. Once you don't have one, it makes it harder to get back in work and just stay part of the society. And there are the children who need mom and dad to drive them anywhere because the public transport is weak or even non-existent especially in the evening or weekend.

At all: The University of technology in Dresden our Capital did scientific work to proof that the AADT forecast done by government was wrong by 33% on average between the setup of the forecast in 2001 and the official counting in 2010. So this numbers where falsely increased to get this built. But trains get worse here, which would shrink pressure on the roads system.

It part of politics done by the rich for the rich. And this government is a christian one (by name). So transport policy is just a part of the evergrowing gap between the poor and the rich in this country.

I don't want this country to get such a shame for the face of the earth like devils own land is. In comparison almost no public transport, the poor are just people who dont fight the rich, but wait for their chance to get rich themselves. And those who suffer from republican policy vote them. Still it took 25 years to accept that Cuba is no danger. But still its evil communist (whith free healthcare).

Pff. Its like everytime someone tells, that its getting better it gets worse instead. But federal infrastructure clown got applause.
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Old March 23rd, 2016, 02:58 AM   #8529
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Well, this was interesting to read. I understand there is a political problem (perceived or real) in the federal vs. local system, it's not the first time I hear German people complaining about it.
Also, in general, I feel in Europe we're all living a moment in which politics are particularly influenced by the dumbest things. I don't think there was ever a "golden era" of savvy and inspired (and honest) politicians, but I'm under the impression that right now politics are particularly unstable and it's very easy to build up big cases out of nothing (and ignoring more serious stuff).

Just one point about this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by belerophon View Post
But i also regret the stupid EU-regulation. It is said, that its discrimination of foreign people. But we pay taxes for our roads they don't. So thats something i just don't get in my mind. In fact right now germans are discriminated, because they pay for something others use for free.
And then Germans (or anyone else) travel to another country and its citizens are paying for roads that Germans are using
In fact the problem exists for all infrastructure pretty much everywhere in the world. We could split this into even more local issues, with a resident of NRW driving on a local road paid by Niedersachsen citizens or even a guy from Bamberg walking for free on a sidewalk paid by the Hamburger taxpayers.

There are two ways of solving this injustice: making people pay for every single public thing they use, or simply ignoring all together the whole thing

As long as everyone is granted the same rights of access I think the system is fair. Also because the overall number of foreigners using a country's infrastructure is usually very very low. In case the system is not balanced (like in the case of the Deutsches Eck at Rosenheim) then there should be a specific agreement.


I don't understand why recently this thing has become a sensible matter, sometimes it seems like people is unhappy and needs an external enemy to be angry with, even with insignificant problems.
Probably this is connected with the age of "bullshit politics" I mentioned, I think that most people are finding difficult to put things into perspective.
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Old March 23rd, 2016, 03:38 AM   #8530
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Quote:
And then Germans (or anyone else) travel to another country and its citizens are paying for roads that Germans are using
In fact the problem exists for all infrastructure pretty much everywhere in the world. We could split this into even more local issues, with a resident of NRW driving on a local road paid by Niedersachsen citizens or even a guy from Bamberg walking for free on a sidewalk paid by the Hamburger taxpayers.
Yes you are right, that its an general problem about who pays and who uses infrastructure.
There are road taxes (of different kinds) for trucks in most european countries.

We discussed the small influence of cars before. But nevertheless:
As german citizen i DO pay for road use in Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovenija, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia, Austria and Switzerland (all of those i paid once or often. But also other neighbouring countries like France or Denmark.

The only ones where germans also use without payment are the Be-Ne-Lux. As germany is a transit-country in the middle of europe that accounts more than if it would be talked about Portugal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_pricing

the german version includes a map also.
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Old March 23rd, 2016, 04:33 AM   #8531
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Link to the map: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F..._the_world.png

The point is that, as far as I know, in those countries you pay the motorway exactly like a local does (especially where there is a pure pay-per-use toll and not a vignette).
If there are cases where locals are granted a substantial exemption, then I agree it's not fair.

It's a matter of financing policies: some countries decided to pay motorways through general taxation, others decided to request a toll to users and keep lower taxes.
If Germany decides to switch system and ask for a toll (reducing the general taxes), fine by me, it's a legitimate political decision.

What I can't stand is that this concept has been turned into "Only foreigners must pay". I can see why a populist politician would try this trick, but now there's even people resented with the EU because such crap is not accepted.
"We feel there is an injustice. Let's solve it with an even worse one, and be offended when they say we're *******s". How can one even think this is right?
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Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

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Old March 24th, 2016, 11:13 PM   #8532
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Viaduct closure

http://www.welt.de/regionales/rheinl...-gesperrt.html

The 400m viaduct "Fechinger Talbrücke" of the A6 near Saarbrücken (map; close to the French border) was closed this evening due to statics defects. It's an inevitable emergency procedure to protect road users ("unausweichliche Sofortmaßnahme zum Schutz der Verkehrsteilnehmer"). Signages will be deployed during the coming days.
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Old March 24th, 2016, 11:25 PM   #8533
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Wow. It will be closed to traffic until the end of the year at least. Is this the first time since WWII that an Autobahn link was severed for a prolonged period?

http://www.sr.de/sr/home/nachrichten...errung100.html
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Old March 24th, 2016, 11:59 PM   #8534
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A40 was closed due to renovation works for some months a few years ago. But it was planned (and less than 9 months). A44 south of Mönchengladbach is closed since 2005. It's planned to be reopened in 2017 .
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Old March 25th, 2016, 02:25 PM   #8535
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Bundesverkehrswegeplan 2030

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
There's a map showing all road projects: http://www.bvwp-projekte.de/map_street.html (You can click on the map to get more info about a project or you can directly select a project by entering the road name or city name on the right).

It's said that all FD, VB-E and VB projects are covered by the 2016-2030 budget (67.7 billion €).
List of new Autobahns from FD category (without new cost-benefit analysis):

SL A8 AS Merzig-Wellingen - AS Merzig-Schwemlingen; E4; 4km; 32,1 Mio € FD
MV A14 A24 - Grabow; N4; 16,2km; 11,7 Mio € FD
BB A14 AS Groß-Warnow - AS Karstädt; N4; 11,5km; 23,1 Mio € FD
ST A14 Wolmirstedt - Lüderitz; N4; 29km; 154 Mio € FD
SH A20 A7 – Weede; N4; 29,6km; 343,9 Mio € FD
SH A21 Kiel (mit Anschluss B76) - Stolpe; E4; 20km; 163,8 Mio € FD
NI A26 Horneburg - Rübke; N4; 14,1km; 156,1 Mio € FD
HH A26 Rübke - AD HH-Süderelbe; N4; 8km; 238,5 Mio € FD
NW A30 AK Löhne - Rehme mit Abzw. Richtung Rehme; N4; 9,5km; 35,6 Mio € FD
NI A33 AS Osnabrück/Schinkel - AS Osnabrück/Belm mit B51 OU Belm; N4; 6,7km; 50 Mio € FD
NW A33 Bielefeld/Brackwede - AS Borgholzhausen mit Zubringer Ummeln; N4; 20km; 159,1 Mio € FD
NW A44 Düsseldorf/Ratingen - Velbert; N4; 9km; 145,4 Mio € FD
HE A44 AD Kassel-Ost - AD Wommen; N4; 30km; 1167 Mio € FD
NW A46 AS Bestwig - Bestwig/Nuttlar mit Zubringer B480n; N4; 5km; 68,7 Mio € FD
HE A49 AS Schwalmstadt - AS Neuental; N4; 11,8km; 178,1 Mio € FD
HE A49 AS Neuental - AD A5; N4; 30,8km; 696,8 Mio € FD
RP A64 Biewertalbrücke; E4; 3km; 18 Mio € FD
HE A66 Frankfurt/Erlenbruch - AS Frankfurt/Bergen-Enkheim; N6; 6,9km; 286,2 Mio € FD
SN A72 Borna-Nord - AD A38/A72; N4; 16,7km; 152,1 Mio € FD
BY A94 AS Forstinning - AS Marktl; N4; 33km; 774,5 Mio € FD
BY A94 AS Malching - Kirchham; N4; 6km; 81 Mio € FD
BW A98 AD Hochrhein - Rheinfelden-Karsau; N4; 2km; 89 Mio € FD
BE A100 AD Neukölln - Storkower Str.; N4/6; 7,3km; 848,3 Mio € FD
ST A143 AS Halle-Neustadt - AD Halle-Nord; N4; 12,6km; 226 Mio € FD
HB A281 Kattenturm - AS Bremen/Airport-Stadt; N4; 2,2km; 112,1 Mio € FD
NW A448 Bochum - AK Bochum/Witten; N4; 3km; 27 Mio € FD
NW A524 Duisburg-Serm - AS Duisburg-Rahm mit B8 OU Düsseldorf-Wittlaer (1.BA); E4; 3km; 25,3 Mio €


List of new Autobahns which are below FD category (sorted by benefit-cost relation):

NW A553 AK Köln-Godorf - AD Köln-Lind; N4; 10,2km; 367,2 Mio € WB*; benefit-cost relation: 15,2
SH A25 OU Geesthacht; N2/4; 10,5km; 93 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 11,5
NW A445 AS Werl-Nord - AS Hamm/Rhynern; N4; 8,1km; 61,2 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 8,0
NW A44 Essen-Ruhralleetunnel; N4; 3,1km; 363,6 Mio € WB*; benefit-cost relation: 6,9
NW A1 AS Blankenheim - AS Lommersdorf; N4; 6km; 49,6 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 5,4
NW A1 AS Lommersdorf – AS Adenau (NW share); N4; 5km; 126,9 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 5,4
RP A1 AS Lommersdorf – AS Adenau (RP share); N4; 3,7km; 99,7 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 5,4
RP A1 AS Adenau – AS Kelberg; N4; 10,5km; 204,9 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 5,4
NW A52 AD Essen-Ost - AK Essen-Nord; N6; 7,1km; 736,3 Mio € WB*; benefit-cost relation: 4,5
SL A1 A1 - A623; N4; 3,2km; 61,5 Mio € WB*; benefit-cost relation: 4,1
BY A94 AK München-Ost - AS Pocking; N4+E4; 46,9km; 526,3 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 4,0
SH A21 AK Bargteheide - AK Schwarzenbek; E4; 20km; 134,6 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 3,8
SH A21 AK Schwarzenbek - AD Geesthacht; N4; 15km; 86,8 Mio € WB*; benefit-cost relation: 3,8
SH A21 AD Geesthacht - AS Rönne (SH share); N4+E4; 2km; 50,7 Mio € WB*; benefit-cost relation: 3,8
NI A21 AD Geesthacht - AS Rönne (NI share); N4+E4; 1,2km; 40,1 Mio € WB*; benefit-cost relation: 3,8
NI A21 AS Rönne - AD Handorf; N4+E4; 12km; 153,6 Mio € WB*; benefit-cost relation: 3,8
NI A33 Osnabrück-Nord - Osnabrück/Belm; N4; 9,4km; 87 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 3,8
HH A26 AK Hamburg-Süderelbe - AD/AS Hamburg-Stillhorn; N4; 9,7km; 895,9 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 3,3
NW A46 AS Hemer - AS Menden; N4; 7,6km; 351,3 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 3,1
NW A52 südl. AD Essen/Gladbeck - AD Essen/Gladbeck; N4; 0,1km; 72,3 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 3,1
NW A52 AK Essen-Nord - südl. AD Essen/Gladbeck; E4; 3,6km; 65,6 Mio € VB-E; benefit-cost relation: 3,1
BB A14 AS Karstädt - Lgr. ST/BB; N4; 19,5km; 174,8 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 3,0
ST A14 Lgr. ST/BB - AS Dahlenwarsleben; N4; 67,1km; 673 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 3,0
SL A623 A623 - A620; E4; 3,2km; 66,6 Mio € WB*; benefit-cost relation: 3,0
BW A98 Rheinfelden - Schwörstadt; N4; 7,1km; 130,4 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 2,6
BW A98 Schwörstadt - Tiengen (1st c/w); N2; 25,4km; 490 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 2,6
BW A98 Schwörstadt - Tiengen (2nd c/w); E4; 33,7km; 261,5 Mio € WB*; benefit-cost relation: 2,6 (2nd c/w costs are 30%)
NI A39 AS Lüneburg-Nord - AS Weyhausen; N4; 106,3km; 1083,1 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 2,1
NW A524 Krefeld - Duisburg-Serm; E4; 6,9km; 224,5 Mio € WB*; benefit-cost relation: 2,1
NW A52 AK Essen/Gladbeck - AS Gelsenkirchen-Buer; N4; 2,6km; 129,9 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 2,0
BW A860 Freiburg - AS Freiburg-Mitte; N4; 2km; 325,5 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 1,9
HB A281 Weserquerung; N4; 4,9km; 260,4 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 1,7
NI A20 AD Westerstede - Hohenfelde with A26 Stade; N4; 161km; 2588,9 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 1,6
SH A20 Drochtersen (Trog Süd) - Glückstadt; N4; 4km; 389,8 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 1,6
SH A20 Glückstadt - Hohenfelde; N4; 15,2km; 207,4 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 1,6
SH A20 Hohenfelde - L114; N4; 10,2km; 114,5 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 1,6
SH A20 L114 - A7; N4; 13,2km; 100,6 Mio € VB; benefit-cost relation: 1,6
NW A40 AS Dortmund - AS Dortmund-Mitte; N6+E6; 3,1km; 343,8 Mio € WB; benefit-cost relation: 1,4
NW A40 AS Dortmund-Mitte - AS Dortmund-Ost; N6+E6; 3,1km; 350,6 Mio € WB; benefit-cost relation: 1,2

Edit: Correct A25/A553 benefit-cost relation added; A20 and A39 project info links added
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
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Last edited by MichiH; March 25th, 2016 at 04:44 PM.
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Old March 25th, 2016, 03:00 PM   #8536
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Interesting, I haven't heard of A553 as a new Rhine crossing south of Cologne before.
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Old March 25th, 2016, 03:11 PM   #8537
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A553 and A860 are the only new Autobahn projects (w/o widening projects) compared to BVWP 2003. Both were submitted by the states in 2013. The A860 tunnel was planned to be built as B31 but the city of Freiburg had to pay it. The "upgrade" was already approved in 2012. That means, A553 is the only new Autobahn project .
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Old March 25th, 2016, 04:35 PM   #8538
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Bundesverkehrswegeplan 2030

In addition to the previous list...

List of new Autobahns w/o demand and no alternative variant with demand (KB; sorted by benefit-cost relation):

RP A60 AS Winterspelt - AS Prüm (2nd c/w); E4; 15,5km; 64,3 Mio € KB; benefit-cost relation: 0,45
ST A71 AD A38 - AD A14; N4; 45,8km; 801,6 Mio € KB; benefit-cost relation: 0,39
RP A64 Northern Bypass Trier; N4; 10,9km; 315,1 Mio € KB; benefit-cost relation: 0,38 (to be checked)
RP A62 AS Bann - AS Pirmasens (2nd c/w); E4; 20,0km; 213,7 Mio € KB; benefit-cost relation: 0,06

Sustainment costs are excluded from the benefit-cost calculation.
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Old March 25th, 2016, 10:30 PM   #8539
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A6 Fechinger Talbrücke

I've looked into some more background information regarding the Fechingen Bridge that was abruptly closed to all traffic since yesterday.

Unlike some other emergency closures, this bridge did not have any major damage to mandate a closure. However, they did a static calculation regarding the bridge supports, which are unusually slim for this type of bridge. It is a heritage / monument (denkmalschutz) for that reason. The recalculation showed the bridge could collapse at any moment! So that caused them to close the bridge to all traffic immediately.

The short-term plan is to strengthen the bridge. They will figure out what measures are needed and then expedite the fabrication of the materials which will strengthen the bridge. They hope to start actual works by August, which are - optimistically - completed by late 2016. The bridge could reopen to traffic by early 2017, possibly with weight restrictions.

Either way, this is a major problem. Although the traffic volume is not particularly high (40,000 vpd) it is the most important link for truck traffic between Germany and France. Today on Good Friday there were reports of 45 minute delays on the detour route. It could be worse because trucks are banned from driving on holidays.

sources: Saarbrücker Zeitung, Saarländische Rundfunk, Landesbetrieb für Straßenbau

The Fechinger Talbrücke:
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Old March 25th, 2016, 10:43 PM   #8540
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LOL, so it is a listed monument because of its incredibly thin architecture... and now it turns out it was actually not credible as a bridge

I see in the picture there's also a lower road passing with a bridge through the pillars of the main one, probably it's closed as well.
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