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Old March 31st, 2016, 11:15 PM   #8561
Attus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I think that rebuilding* the A4 2x3 was the right decision
I absolutely agree.
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Old April 1st, 2016, 12:53 AM   #8562
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Some French motorways have a 3+2 patern with the extra lane added only in uphill stretches, for slow trucks.
But I don't know how less this can cost, compared with a full 2x3.

Probably that solution is a good compromise when you have a 2x2 and you sacrifice the emergency lane; it's substandard but uphill there's not a big risk of hitting a standing vehicle.
On a new alignment, just go for the full thing.

It would be interesting to have a comparison of costs between 2x3 and 2x2, especially in a hilly terrain like that.
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Old April 1st, 2016, 09:14 PM   #8563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Some French motorways have a 3+2 patern with the extra lane added only in uphill stretches, for slow trucks.
There are also some German 2x2 Autobahns with additional uphill lanes. For instance, A1, A5, A6, A7, A44, A45, A61, A81,... My A3 is currently upgraded to 2x3 with some sections featuring an additonal 4th uphill lane. A4 in Hesse - b/n A7 and the future A44 - is currently u/c for realignment, adding hard shoulders and adding 3rd uphill lanes instead of a complete 2x3 upgrade like it was done b/n the future A44 and Dresden.
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Old April 2nd, 2016, 09:13 AM   #8564
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A8 also used to have additional uphill lanes, e.g. directly east of where it branches off from A5. Before they expanded it to 2x3 and dropped that feature by only adding an extra lane on the downhill causeway.
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Old April 3rd, 2016, 01:42 AM   #8565
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I think that A8 need third line (with shoulders) all the way from Rosenheim to border with Austria.
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Old April 3rd, 2016, 11:08 AM   #8566
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This part of A8 does not have additional uphill lanes. It's planned to be upgraded to 2x3 though (residents just wants hard shoulders to be added). A little A8 BVWP 2030 overview (west to east):

Luxembourg - Saarbrücken:
FD: 2nd c/w AS Merzig/Wellingen - AS Merzig/Schwemlingen; 4.0km; 32.1 million € (u/c 2015-2017)

Karlsruhe - Stuttgart:
FD: 2x3 widening AS Pforzheim-North - AS Pforzheim-South; 3.0km; 146.7 million € (funded; construction period 2018-2021)

Stuttgart - Ulm - (Munich):
VB 2x4 widening AD Leonberg - AK Stuttgart; 8.8km; 97.6 million €; benefit-cost relation: 423 (already 4 uphill eastbound lanes; 4th continuous westbound lane "Verflechtungsstreifen" u/c; a "real" 2x4 widening is considered with BVWP 2030; AADT 2030: 175,000)
VB-E 2x4 widening AK Stuttgart - AS Stuttgart-Degerloch; 8.6km; 61.5 million €; benefit-cost relation: 31 (AADT 2030: 139,000)
WB* 2x4 widening AS Stuttgart-Degerloch - AS Wendlingen; 14.1km; 128.1 million €; benefit-cost relation: 7.0 (AADT 2030: 121,000)
FD 2x3 realignment AS Mühlhausen - Hohenstadt (Albaufstieg); 8.0km; 467.8 million € (plan approval procedure was stopped but should be restarted; construction period ~2019-2025 or later)
FD 2x3 widening Hohenstadt - AS Ulm-West; 22.0km; 102.7 million € (u/c in 4 sections 2012-2020; 1 completed; 2 u/c; 1 not yet u/c)
FD 2x3 widening Ulm-West - AK Ulm-Elchingen; 11.7km; 80.4 million € (plans are approved by Federal Ministry of Transport but plan approval procedure has not yet been started)

Munich - Salzburg:
2x4/2x3 widening AK Munich-South - Austrian border; 116.0km; 1852.2 million €; benefit-cost relation: 1.2; thereof:
- VB 2x4 widening AK Munich-South - AS Holzkirchen; 15.8km; 167.2 million €
- VB 2x4 widening AS Holzkirchen - AD Inntal; 29.8km; 413.8 million €
- VB-E 2x3 widening AD Inntal - AS Traustein/Siegsdorf; 44.9km; 703.3 million € (split into 5 sections: 2 plan approval procedures since 2014; 1 approved by Ministry, plan approval procedure not yet started; 2 in planning stage)
- WB* 2x3 widening AS Traunstein/Siegsdorf - Austrian border; 25.5km; 567.9 million € (split into 5 sections; 1 approved by Ministry, plan approval procedure not yet started; 4 in planning stage)
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Old April 4th, 2016, 12:41 AM   #8567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kato2k8 View Post

Project demands not taken up in the new BVWP btw that might give one an idea of what "used-to-reunification-benefits" state ministries "expect" include such interesting ones as a 2x4 widening for the 95,000 AADT A4 in Saxony.
I did already tell, that the A4 widening in this part would be the most useful road project in saxony. If you argue, that this one is stupid, every other city bypass of medium citys or out in nowhere is much more unbeneficial.

I did mention already, that there are much bigger need in the west. The AADT of 95.000 is misleading though. Its an part where the differences within the week are very high. Its an slowdrive section on every single weekend for 50 kilometers. If an accident happens at this time its one big deadlock. I don't go on it so often. But every single weekend it was at least crowded.

There is no alternative road one could take. the next east-west connection is berlin south ring. Any 2+1 in between will take some decades.
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Old April 4th, 2016, 08:27 PM   #8568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kato2k8 View Post
In case anyone wonders why there are six lanes but only a dozen cars per picture and zero trucks: The A4 expansion is part of old plans drawn up after reunification, meaning demand or a cost-benefit-analysis did not really play much of a role in it being built.

AADT is 58,000 near Jena about 10-15 km downroute (where it's somewhat fuller than the place in the pictures) - usually 60,000 is seen as absolute minimum for 2x3 (and 90,000 is seen as "good capacity usage"), 120,000 is absolute minimum for 2x4. The A4 expansion above has since been reasoned for as "well, we will have 60,000 there - in ten years or so".

Project demands not taken up in the new BVWP btw that might give one an idea of what "used-to-reunification-benefits" state ministries "expect" include such interesting ones as e.g. a 2x3 widening for the 37,000 (!) AADT A12 in Brandenburg or a 2x4 widening for the 95,000 AADT A4 in Saxony.
As much as I agree with your last paragraph and your statement in general, but the numbers are totally wrong. In general, 50k already qualifies for 3+3 and 100k for 4+4. Even in Western Germany there are sections with partly even less than 50k (i.e. on A6, A61 and A45) but where widening to 3+3 is seen as urgent - and with good reasons. There are sections of A4 where 3+3 would not have been required (especially near Eisenach and between Hermsdorfer Kreuz and Chemnitz), but the widening of the section between Erfurt and Hermsdorf, which includes the area near Jena shown above, is an absolute must also with todays numbers.
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Old April 4th, 2016, 09:15 PM   #8569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belerophon View Post
I did already tell, that the A4 widening in this part would be the most useful road project in saxony. If you argue, that this one is stupid, every other city bypass of medium citys or out in nowhere is much more unbeneficial.
Dunno if I should trust the analyzation of the Federal Ministry of Transport but...

KB A4 widening 2x4 widening AD Nossen - AD Dresden-North; 32.3km; 256.36 million €; benefit-cost relation: 0.18.

VB B6 Dresden-Cossebaude; 4.2km; 62.7 million €; benefit-cost relation: 13
VB B97 Ottendorf-Okrilla bypass; 6.4km; 37.6 million €; benefit-cost relation: 8.2
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Old April 4th, 2016, 09:47 PM   #8570
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According to 2014 traffic counts on the BAST website, the average daily traffic on A4 between Nossen and Dresden-Nord is between 86,000 and 94,000 vehicles per day, with 12,000 - 16,000 trucks (the higher truck count is west of A17). Judging by this traffic data, a widening to eight lanes doesn't seem overly urgent, depending on the growth rate.
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Old April 4th, 2016, 10:31 PM   #8571
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A43 b/n AS Witten-Heven and AS Marl-Sinsen is planned to be upgraded to 2x3 lanes. The project is VB-E (bottleneck) and split into 6 sections. The first section is u/c (2014-2021), the plan approval procedure for the 2nd section is in progress and the plan approval procedure for the 3rd section (AS Bochum-Riemke - AK Bochum) has just began, see press release. The latter was announced to be built from 2020 to 2024. AADT 2010 was about 90,000 vehicles/day, the expected AADT 2030 is about 100,000 vehicles/day, truck share is about 8%.

VB-E A43 2x3 widening AS Witten-Heven - AS Marl-Sinsen; 20.4km; 282.52 million €; benefit-cost relation: 11
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Old April 5th, 2016, 09:01 PM   #8572
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I listen West German Radio frequently (usually WDR4), there are two sites, which you hear every day in traffic report:
- A1 Dortmund, Richtung Köln, zwischen Burscheid und Kreuz Leverkusen (A1 from Dortmund to Cologne, between Burscheid and Intersection Leverkusen)
- A43 Wuppertal, Richtung Recklinghausen (A43 from Wuppertal to Recklinghausen).
These two sections may even Sunday be congested.
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Old April 8th, 2016, 08:19 PM   #8573
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The groundbreaking ceremony for the 2x4 widening of A10 Berliner Ring b/n AD Potsdam (A9) and AD Nuthetal (A115) took place last week (map). The 9km 2x3 section has an AADT of about 90,000 vehicles/day. The expected 2025 AADT is b/n 117,000 and 125,000 vehicles/day. Truck share is about 25%. The project includes noise protection (10 million €) and more parking lots at the T+R Michendorf-South (9 million €). Total costs are 150.7 million €, the expected completion date is late 2020. See press release (2).
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

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Old April 8th, 2016, 09:12 PM   #8574
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A23

Steer clear of A23 during the summer.... The Autobahn will be renovated from Halstenbek/Rellingen to the border with Hamburg, and will be narrowed to 3 lanes (1 southbound) while the average traffic is 80,000 vehicles per day...

http://www.abendblatt.de/region/pinn...einspurig.html
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Old April 13th, 2016, 05:53 PM   #8575
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Bundesverkehrswegeplan 2030

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
There's a map showing all road projects: http://www.bvwp-projekte.de/map_street.html

It's said that all FD, VB-E and VB projects are covered by the 2016-2030 budget (67.7 billion €).
There are finally nice HUGE maps (but too large to be directly embedded here):

Street: https://mobil.hessen.de/sites/mobil....tra%C3%9Fe.png (7087x10237px).
Rail: https://mobil.hessen.de/sites/mobil....-Schiene_0.png (6692x7167px).
Water: https://mobil.hessen.de/sites/mobil....030-Wasser.png (6800x8800px).
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
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See 'New motorway projects' thread

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Old April 15th, 2016, 12:16 PM   #8576
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just heard of A15 closure near Forst due to some WWII bombs found
could You confirm if already open back for traffic?
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Old April 15th, 2016, 03:40 PM   #8577
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It turned out to be a pipe. They had to demolish a section of roadway to get to it. I couldn't find any information about the current status, the last updates on Google News or Twitter are from 13 April.

However, Antenne Brandenburg traffic information has the following;

A 15, Forst Richtung Dreieck Spreewald,
zwischen Forst und Roggosen ist wegen Bauarbeiten nur eine Spur in Richtung Cottbus befahrbar. Die Fahrbahn in Richtung Forst bleibt wegen Bauarbeiten bis voraussichtlich Dienstag gesperrt.


So it is still closed eastbound until Tuesday. There is one lane open westbound.

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Old April 15th, 2016, 03:58 PM   #8578
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I got confirmed at polish forum that direction Berlin is open
is the tuesday's opening date sure?
I'm planning to drive back to Poland on 23rd april
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Old April 15th, 2016, 04:05 PM   #8579
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They're talking about voraussichtlich Dienstag, so it isn't set in stone.

You could check traffic information before you leave or en-route and decide on an alternate route if necessary.
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Old April 16th, 2016, 12:37 AM   #8580
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why did they think there was a bomb there?
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