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Old June 13th, 2016, 09:54 PM   #8701
ChrisZwolle
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5,5 years for 4 km of second carriageway? Do they build them by hand like in the 19th century?
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Old June 13th, 2016, 10:04 PM   #8702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
5,5 years for 4 km of second carriageway? Do they build them by hand like in the 19th century?
It was previously reported that it's to be completed by late 2021. The press release indicates that the construction period is 4 to 5 years which means that the road might be opened in 2021.

Quote:
Bei einer Bauzeit von vier bis fünf Jahren kann mit einer Verkehrsfreigabe im Jahr 2021 gerechnet werden.
Nevertheless, I'm quite sure that I will have to report about 2022 or even 2023 one day....
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Old June 13th, 2016, 11:03 PM   #8703
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This is really getting out of hand in Germany. To compare: they built 40 kilometers of 2nd carriageway, including one new alignment, several new interchanges, a cloverleaf and a drawbridge as part of the N33 widening in the Netherlands. Construction lasted from 27 February 2013 to 22 September 2014, so just over 1.5 years of works...

These extremely long construction times in Germany are becoming a rule, rather than an exception or incidents. And in many cases the actual completion is even later than planned.
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Old June 13th, 2016, 11:12 PM   #8704
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Correct! And no one cares........
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Old June 13th, 2016, 11:29 PM   #8705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
5,5 years for 4 km of second carriageway? Do they build them by hand like in the 19th century?
Please, don't insult 19th century german engeneers. In the 1800s this would have taken a couple of weeks at the most.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 01:54 AM   #8706
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I hope it's just some bats nearby that must not be woken, so they can't use any machines...
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Old June 14th, 2016, 05:04 AM   #8707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
This is really getting out of hand in Germany. To compare: they built 40 kilometers of 2nd carriageway, including one new alignment, several new interchanges, a cloverleaf and a drawbridge as part of the N33 widening in the Netherlands. Construction lasted from 27 February 2013 to 22 September 2014, so just over 1.5 years of works...

These extremely long construction times in Germany are becoming a rule, rather than an exception or incidents. And in many cases the actual completion is even later than planned.
Wait. The 72 km A 1 widening was not that ridiculous, or was it?
(Sechsstreifiger Ausbau der Autobahn 1 zwischen Hamburg und Bremen)
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Old June 14th, 2016, 07:21 AM   #8708
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Wait. The 72 km A 1 widening was not that ridiculous, or was it?
(Sechsstreifiger Ausbau der Autobahn 1 zwischen Hamburg und Bremen)
That was a privately funded and built project. These PPP (public-private-partnerships) almost always take around 4 years because the private investor already has all the money from the start of the project, so there is no need to build in stages and everything can be done at the same time. The downside to them is the usually very long planning and permission period.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 12:20 PM   #8709
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Wait. The 72 km A 1 widening was not that ridiculous, or was it?
That's a good example for an exception about German construction periods nowadays! Autobahn widenings are usually complex (construction while traffic is still using the road) and are usually completed within 2 years per section (up to 10km). In addition, preliminary works for some months in the previous year. I think it's okay when construction periods are longer if there's a long viaduct to be replaced or anything "really" complex on the section.

Unfortunately, it's quite common in Germany that widening projects take longer and the section lengths are often quite short which results in a very long construction period for the entire widening of an Autobahn.

But the German insanity is that even "simple" projects take ages.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 03:21 PM   #8710
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duration from highway construction works in Germany

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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
It was previously reported that it's to be completed by late 2021. The press release indicates that the construction period is 4 to 5 years which means that the road might be opened in 2021.



Nevertheless, I'm quite sure that I will have to report about 2022 or even 2023 one day....
Again and again....duration from highway construction works in Germany is incredible comparing with other countries.
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Old June 15th, 2016, 08:05 PM   #8711
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Short news: Construction site for a new valley bridge in Schraudenbach collapsed (40 meters of bridge went down), heavy casualties among the 20 construction workers. A7 between Würzburg and Schweinfurt.
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Old June 15th, 2016, 08:17 PM   #8712
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Wow that's bad.

More info in German: http://www.br.de/nachrichten/unterfr...ch-a7-100.html
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Old June 18th, 2016, 05:56 PM   #8713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TM_Germany View Post
That was a privately funded and built project. These PPP (public-private-partnerships) almost always take around 4 years because the private investor already has all the money from the start of the project, so there is no need to build in stages and everything can be done at the same time. The downside to them is the usually very long planning and permission period.
Yes, the PPP funding structure doesn't shorten the plan approval process duration. They are also in the process of getting plan approval for A3 from Würzburg to Nürnberg, which will be built as a PPP. If I'm correctly some segments already have 'Baurecht' for years.

I think this is due to a lack of planning capacity at the road authorities. Typical in Germany are the large number of 'Planungsabschnitte' for road projects that have the same plan (2x3 widening). This not only happens with roads, but railroads as well. A known project in the Netherlands is the third track between Emmerich and Oberhausen, it is divided into 12 Planungsabschnitte (planning segments), each requiring a separate public consultation and appeal process.

You also see this very fragmented planning and construction with new bypasses. Instead of building a bypass at once, they built segments separately. For example the Anklam bypass was built in three stages from 1997 to 2015. So you'll have a first sod in the mid-1990s, and people expect it to be completed soon. In reality it is completed after 18 years of construction and waiting...

Just recently they started on the B14 expansion from Winnenden to Backnang. Of course they don't start on the whole project, but just a 1.9 kilometer segment...
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Old June 18th, 2016, 06:37 PM   #8714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
5,5 years for 4 km of second carriageway? Do they build them by hand like in the 19th century?
Maybe they need to walk the rare snails out one by one. The eco nonsense is destroying Germany, all those green voting unemployed (but highly qualified) snail walkers they need to hire for every project nowadays.
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Old June 18th, 2016, 08:09 PM   #8715
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Quote:
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A known project in the Netherlands is the third track between Emmerich and Oberhausen, it is divided into 12 Planungsabschnitte (planning segments), each requiring a separate public consultation and appeal process.
B6n between AD Vienenburg and AK Wolfen, 128.6 km along B6 and B185 (partially formerly planned as A36) which are now being widened and relaid to "just below Autobahn standard", is currently on its 17th building segment - 24th if accounting for sub-segmentation - with another three segments being planned. Construction on the first segment started 16 years ago.
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Old June 19th, 2016, 10:41 AM   #8716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yes, the PPP funding structure doesn't shorten the plan approval process duration. They are also in the process of getting plan approval for A3 from Würzburg to Nürnberg, which will be built as a PPP. If I'm correctly some segments already have 'Baurecht' for years.
There are 10 sections for a total length of about 80km 2x3 widening (project page).
It was announced (in May 2015 but repeated many times) that the PPP tender should begin in first half-year of 2016.

The first plan approval procedure began in fall 2008, the plan approval order was passed in December 2009. Construction period March 2016 to Late 2017 (it's a preliminary construction off the PPP contract paid by federal budget because residents demand noise protection for years and politicians promised it).
The last plan approval procedure began in October 2014 and was passed in December 2015.
The plan approval procedure for the 12.4km section from river Main bridge to Wiesentheid is still in progress**. It began in August 2011, a supplement procedure began in February 2015, another supplement procedure began in October 2015.

** The river Main bridge is already rebuilt. The Rhine-Main-Danube Canal bridge was completed in December 2015 (plan approval order was passed in April 2013).


I think A3 Würzburg - Nuremberg planning progress is quite good compared to other widening projects (A3 Aschaffenburg - Würzburg, A6 Mannheim - Nuremberg, A8 Karlsruhe - Ulm, A8 Rosenheim - Salzburg,...)
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Old June 19th, 2016, 10:48 AM   #8717
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A23 Itzehoe

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The official opening ceremony was yesterday. It's announced that it's planned to have 4 lanes in service from 8th July, see news article.
Both carriageways are in service since last Tuesday, 14th June - one lane per direction only.
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Old June 19th, 2016, 11:02 AM   #8718
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B14 Backnang

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The B14 project b/n Backnang-West and Nellmersbach in Baden-Württemberg has a length of 7.6km. AADT was about 22,000 vehicles/day in 2010 and it's planned to built a 4-laned road with hard shoulders. It also contains the 2nd Murr viaduct (2nd c/w, the old one was recently reconstructed) and a 135m tunnel in Waldrems.

The plan approval order was passed in November 2005 and building permit (Baurecht) is available since October 2007. Total costs: about 144 million €.

The project was split by the state's ministry of transport in 2011. It was planned to built section 1 first. It has a length of 1.9km and includes the Waldrems tunnel. The estimated costs were 38.93 million in 2012. This section was split by the Federal ministry of Transport now. Just 10 million € are funded! That's about 25% of BA1 costs (inflation is about 2-3%/year) and less than 7% of the total 7.6km section costs!

Good news: construction works of section 1.1 should begin in April 2016 (source) and should be completed by 2017 (source).
For any reason, I forgot posting the construction start here (it's relevant for my "new motorway" thread although it's just an expressway):

The groundbreaking cermony took place one week ago, see press release. I passed there one hour prior to the ceremony and saw an excavator doing some earthworks next to the existing road. I guess it began just 2-3 hours earlier. Preliminary works (cable installation) already took place in the past months.

Only 1km is u/c (May 2016 to Fall 2017), the construction of the next 0.9km sub-section was announced to begin in (early) 2018, see press release from March 2016. The latter includes a 135m artificial tunnel at Waldrems interchange. The sub-section was announced to be completed by 2021.
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Old June 19th, 2016, 11:28 PM   #8719
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I did some 1500 km in Bavaria, Hesse, Thuringia, Lower Saxony and Saxony Anhalt last 3 days. A lot of construction zones on motorways, but also on other roads, especially complete road closings. Umleitung signs useless in some situations, very frustrating. Also, there was almost nobody working anywhere, and today everything was abandoned...
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Old June 20th, 2016, 12:28 AM   #8720
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Quote:
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I did some 1500 km in Bavaria, Hesse, Thuringia, Lower Saxony and Saxony Anhalt last 3 days. A lot of construction zones on motorways, but also on other roads, especially complete road closings. Umleitung signs useless in some situations, very frustrating. Also, there was almost nobody working anywhere, and today everything was abandoned...
In most countries they usually work only Mon-Fri.
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