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Old July 14th, 2016, 08:25 PM   #8781
keokiracer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kato2k8 View Post
Such accidents with trucks plowing in the back end of a traffic jam rarely happen at construction sites, or rather near where traffic jams at construction sites* are predicted and can be managed;
Well, from Chris' list:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
12 July: family of 3 killed when a truck crushes a car + caravan on A7 near Kassel.
8 July: Truck crashes into traffic jam on A60 near Mainz, catches fire. Truck cabin decimated, driver killed
7 July: Three trucks crash into traffic jam on A14 near Halle.
7 July: 77-year old trucker crashes into stauende on A61 near Mörstadt
7 July: concrete mixer drives into traffic jam on A73.
7 July: the number of truck crashes rises 'dramatically' in the state of Sachsen-Anhalt 'häufig am stauende'.
6 July: Fatal truck accident on A2 near Irxleben, truck cabin completely detached from truck, drove into traffic jam.
5 July: Truck crashes into traffic jam on A6 near Mannheim, truck driver killed
4 July: 11 vehicles crash into traffic jam on A6 near Mannheim, 2 fatalities, 14 injured (exact same location as 5 July accident)
4 July: truck crashes into traffic jam on A57 near Neuss.
From top to bottom with Baustelle meaning a construction site within 3 kms of the location of the accident:
Baustelle
Baustelle
Baustelle
Baustelle
Baustelle
No Baustelle, because no specific accident but a general message
Baustelle
Baustelle
Baustelle
No Baustelle

But no, they don't occur near Baustellen
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Old July 14th, 2016, 11:08 PM   #8782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kato2k8 View Post
Such accidents with trucks plowing in the back end of a traffic jam rarely happen at construction sites, or rather near where traffic jams at construction sites* are predicted and can be managed
No, they almost always happen exactly there!
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Old July 15th, 2016, 10:18 AM   #8783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
From top to bottom with Baustelle meaning a construction site within 3 kms of the location of the accident:
3 km is not near a construction site, that's at best the halfway point between two construction sites.

There is a managed zone ahead of a Baustelle. Unless it's a really, really major thing with rerouting this managed zone starts at around 800m to 1 km usually (with a first warning sign at 2 km), and drops speed to 80 km/h either there or within the next 300-500m.
Most accidents happen at the end of traffic jams if these start extending beyond the managed zone.

Let's take the one where trucks crashed on successive days on the A6. Both labeled as "at construction site". Those accidents didn't happen at the nearby construction site. They actually both happened at AS MA-Sandhofen, two km ahead of it, where in the evenings a ton of rushhour traffic merges onto the Autobahn.
The construction site contributes to a traffic jam forming (not really; it's usually only a 30 km/h slow column) that can back up to AS Sandhofen and during rush hour sometimes well beyond that (friday evenings: up to 10 km) but isn't solely responsible either, the merging pattern at the AS in my opinion is highly crash-prone anyway: traffic coming from Mannheim onto the A6 westwards is forced onto the right lane with a concrete barrier with no way to move otherwise and no shoulder available (it's just as bad on the left lane since you'll have people moving at 70 km/h merging onto the right lane at this point then immediately swerve onto the left regardless of traffic coming from behind because they just have to overtake that truck ahead of them before the construction site). As a result traffic jams either form directly at this chokepoint, or due to oncoming braking traffic a few hundred meters before it on the A6. And that's where the accidents both occured.
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Old July 15th, 2016, 10:58 AM   #8784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kato2k8 View Post
3 km is not near a construction site, that's at best the halfway point between two construction sites.
Yes, they happen in the traffic jams caused by the Baustellen, that's what I said and what you said wasn't true.

Also, 3 km is not at best halfway between Baustellen, that's 10km-ish (nationwide average)
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Old July 15th, 2016, 08:18 PM   #8785
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Nationwide average yes, within the areas affected not.
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Old July 15th, 2016, 08:26 PM   #8786
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Today's Friday traffic was horrendous in Germany, nearly all Autobahn stretches between cities had one or more traffic jams, in many cases in both directions. Over 2 hours delay was reported on A7 near Hamburg and A9 between Ingolstadt and München. And many, many, many traffic jams formed near workzones.

I'm thinking that Germany could have much less congestion if they had roadworks like in the Netherlands. Basically the Autobahn capacity is not that problematic, it's the extreme amount of workzones that affect traffic flow - even if the number of lanes is not reduced.
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Old July 15th, 2016, 09:24 PM   #8787
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now that we inreasingly integrating our militarys I advocate for our respective infrastructure authorities to intigrate next I know you dutch won't have much use for our traffic engineers but nobody will mind if you just lock them in the basement whenever they get annoying But who knows, I guess many of the construction fails are due to the as-cheap-as-possible policies so they might not be as useless as you might expect from the condition of Germany's Autobahnen.

No but seriously, can't you invite Mr. Dobrindt and his buddies the next time you build something major and show them how it's done?
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Old July 15th, 2016, 09:34 PM   #8788
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The minister of Bauen, Wohnen, Stadtentwicklung und Verkehr in Northrhine-Westphalia Michael Groschek visted the Netherlands and was impressed;

In drei Monaten haben die Niederländer die neue Querung über die Hafenautobahn A 15 fertiggestellt. Inklusive Abbruch der alten Brücke – die nicht mehr lang genug war, als die Autobahn verbreitert wurde – wie ein niederländischer Bauexperte dem Gast aus Deutschland erzählt. „Drei Monate“, wiederholt Groschek – und formt dabei eine extra lange „dreeeiiiiii“.

„Bei uns“, sagt schließlich Nicole de Witt, Groscheks Brückenspezialistin vom Landesbetrieb Straßen-NRW, „hätte der Bau zwischen einem und anderthalb Jahren gedauert“.


Groschek was surprised by the Dutch bridge construction process, where it takes 3 months to replace a bridge. In Germany it would have taken between 12 and 18 months.
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Old July 16th, 2016, 09:37 AM   #8789
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Holiday traffic has been terrible all night long in Bavaria.

I checked just before midnight and there were multiple stretches of Autobahn with more than 1 hour delay, especially A3 traffic is extremely congested, at that time there was a combined delay of 3 hours between Frankfurt and Regensburg. There were also long delays on A9 from Nürnberg to München.

Someone else checked around 3:30 a.m. several long traffic jams on A3 and A9, with delays over 1.5 hours.

TomTom reports a 28 kilometer traffic jam on A3 from Nürnberg to Regensburg, with a delay of over 90 minutes due to roadworks near Neumarkt i.d. Oberfpalz.

Many people travel during the night to 'avoid traffic' which is obviously not working.
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Old July 16th, 2016, 08:45 PM   #8790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Groschek was surprised by the Dutch bridge construction process, where it takes 3 months to replace a bridge. In Germany it would have taken between 12 and 18 months.
A case in point, the small bridge (40 meters) of A3 over State Road 2240 near Neumarkt in der Oberpfalz is being replaced. There is a 3-0 workzone, meaning only 1 lane for traffic in the direction of Regensburg.

This causes incredible traffic congestion, with 1 hour+ delays all day long. Even at 3:30 a.m. last night there was a 16 kilometer traffic jam with 1.5 hours delay. Currently (almost 8 p.m.) nearly all traffic jams in southern Germany have disappeared, except this one, 14 kilometer Stau with 1 hour delay...

It turns out the bridge replacement is a long-term project, it takes almost a year to replace one half of the bridge, so nearly 2 years of construction (and severe traffic impact) except during the winter pause. In the Netherlands a similar project requires only 12 weeks.
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Old July 16th, 2016, 11:49 PM   #8791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A case in point, the small bridge (40 meters) of A3 over State Road 2240 near Neumarkt in der Oberpfalz is being replaced. There is a 3-0 workzone, meaning only 1 lane for traffic in the direction of Regensburg.

This causes incredible traffic congestion, with 1 hour+ delays all day long. Even at 3:30 a.m. last night there was a 16 kilometer traffic jam with 1.5 hours delay. Currently (almost 8 p.m.) nearly all traffic jams in southern Germany have disappeared, except this one, 14 kilometer Stau with 1 hour delay...

It turns out the bridge replacement is a long-term project, it takes almost a year to replace one half of the bridge, so nearly 2 years of construction (and severe traffic impact) except during the winter pause. In the Netherlands a similar project requires only 12 weeks.
thats Germany for you. everything takes ages nowadays. too many rules.
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Old July 17th, 2016, 07:37 PM   #8792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Holiday traffic has been terrible all night long in Bavaria.
A long traffic jam (2h delay) on A3 b/n Regensburg and Passau was already reported on Saturday 6AM because of a construction site. In addition, a 2h delay on A9 Nuremberg - Munich.

I drove in Bavaria this morning. There was no traffic jam reported on the radio at 6AM! First reports began at 7:30 AM. A3 Frankfurt - Würzburg, A9 Nuremberg - Munich and A8 Munich - Salzburg had problems all the day...

A3 Regensburg-Passau was not reported today though.
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Old July 18th, 2016, 06:36 PM   #8793
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Magdeburg

I filmed the 'Stadtautobahn' (urban expressway) through Magdeburg last month. It's a four-lane expressway right through the city. As explained in the video, it carries three road numbers (B81, B71 & B189). It also includes a tunnel under the Mittelland Canal north of Magdeburg.

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Old July 18th, 2016, 09:48 PM   #8794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A case in point, the small bridge (40 meters) of A3 over State Road 2240 near Neumarkt in der Oberpfalz is being replaced. There is a 3-0 workzone, meaning only 1 lane for traffic in the direction of Regensburg.

This causes incredible traffic congestion, with 1 hour+ delays all day long. Even at 3:30 a.m. last night there was a 16 kilometer traffic jam with 1.5 hours delay. Currently (almost 8 p.m.) nearly all traffic jams in southern Germany have disappeared, except this one, 14 kilometer Stau with 1 hour delay...

It turns out the bridge replacement is a long-term project, it takes almost a year to replace one half of the bridge, so nearly 2 years of construction (and severe traffic impact) except during the winter pause. In the Netherlands a similar project requires only 12 weeks.
for me is this funny, if we drive longer distances we always make short brakes/ driver changes and then take a look for example at google maps and additional listen to the radio

traffic jam the whole day, took a look at the map, reaction:
1.direct link nürnberg -> regensburg +60min or more

2.alternative, map oh direct route is direction south-east, other option
2a. nürnberg go east A6 to Amberg
2b. then B85 to Schwandorf
2c. A93 south and reach Regensburg
-> only about 30km more, google maps no traffic disruption +17mins quite better than 60-120 min

stupid drivers get stupid waiting time in their holiday, not use modern technologies is your own fault and funny to watch
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Old July 19th, 2016, 06:23 PM   #8795
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Once again a whole family was killed on the Autobahn when a truck crashed into a traffic jam at full speed. It happened last night on A1 near Hamburg-Billstedt, where a traffic jam formed at roadworks. The truck likely plowed into the car at highway speed, crushing the car into another truck, killing the family of 4.

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Old July 21st, 2016, 08:39 AM   #8796
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I am not surprised by this, considering that truck drivers are watching tv (with subtitles!), reading books, making meals - all these during driving. Horrible. I hope automatic braking systems will be widely introduced within next few years.
Funny thing about traffic jams is that people dont avoid them by small detours. There are traffic infos in radio, TMC etc. and people still sits in traffic jams. Cars < 3,5 t can go almost all roads so its easy. Bad thing in navi era is that people dont take paper maps with them anymore... Maybe its the reason too.
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Old July 21st, 2016, 10:30 AM   #8797
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Quote:
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Bad thing in navi era is that people dont take paper maps with them anymore... Maybe its the reason too.
But modern gps navigators can detect traffic jams and calculate detours...
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Old July 21st, 2016, 01:57 PM   #8798
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Quote:
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Funny thing about traffic jams is that people dont avoid them by small detours. There are traffic infos in radio, TMC etc. and people still sits in traffic jams.
It depends on the kind of traffic jam. Most jams are just stop&go without losing much time. Using detours makes only sense if there is a 'parallel' road which really saves time. I'm used to stay on Autobahn and I've never lost too much time. Detours are often jammed too and don't save time except if there's a total closure (which I've never had).

Nevertheless, I lost more than 1 hour just 2 weeks ago because my GPS was fooling me. A delay of more than 1 hour was reported and a convenient detour was offered. I listened to the radio and they confirmed a 10km+ traffic jam due to a truck accident on A1 east of AK Bremen. It was more than 1 hour ahead and I stopped for a rest just in front of Bremen. Afterwards, my GPS only showed a 2 minutes delay and no detour suggestion. I've triggered a TMC update but no noticable delay anymore. I took A1 instead of driving through Bremen and lost about 1 hour 20 minutes because of stop & go for more than 10km. I thought about leaving Autobahn but couldn't find any reasonable detour manually.


Generally, accidents at the end of traffic jams can always happen anywhere. It's not possible to avoid any situation except of not driving anymore.
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Old July 21st, 2016, 08:56 PM   #8799
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A14

The plan approval process has been completed for a segment of A14 from Colbitz to Tangerhütte (8 km), which is north of Magdeburg. There were no objections against a supplemental plan approval order.

The next step would be to obtain the € 65 million in funding needed to construct this segment. According to the state, this shouldn't be a problem as Sachsen-Anhalt has always quickly obtained federal funding for shovel-ready projects. They expect preliminary work to start later this year.

http://www.presse.sachsen-anhalt.de/...68036894f01bfd
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Old July 22nd, 2016, 09:32 AM   #8800
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Quote:
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Detours are often jammed too and don't save time except if there's a total closure (which I've never had).
You don't drive a lot, or you are just lucky man It happens quite often, and the bad thing is a delay in radio traffic info or false info. Once i was standing 5 hours on A7 near Hann. Munden (very dangerous point, something happens there almost every day ) The radio told just "ungesichert unfallstelle", but there was total disaster with 2 trucks, lots of oil on the surface at 2 km...

Why they dont put warning signs + speed limit AFTER roadworks on autobahn? Lately i got hit by the rock on the autobahn which was previously renovated (and got to change the windscreen )
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