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Old August 21st, 2016, 07:39 PM   #8901
MichiH
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B47 Worms

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The construction of the 2nd carriageway west of Worms will begin next week and the construction period is 5 months, see press release.
The construction of the Worms bypass is split into 2 lots. The construction of the 1st lot will begin this summer. The announced opening is 2019. The 2nd lot is announced to be built from 2018 to 2022. See press release and a recently published project info.

B47: AS Worms (A61) – AS Worms-West 2.1km (May 2016 to October 2016) [2nd c/w] – projectmap
B47: AS Worms-West – AS Worms-Horchheimer Straße 1.1km (Summer 2016 to 2019) – projectmap
B47: AS Worms-Horchheimer Straße – AS Worms-South 1.2km (2018 to 2022) – projectmap
The 2nd c/w will be completed in November 2016. Afterwards, the 1st c/w will be closed due to renovation works. 4 lanes will be in service from December 2016 (which was previously announced for October 2016). Source.

The official groundbreaking ceremony of the bypass (2nd+3rd section of my list) will be on Friday.
The groundbreaking ceremony took place but there are no new facts except the completion period. It's approximately 7 years. That means, the last section (1.2km) should be completed in 2022/23.

Press release of the Federal Ministry of Transport and press release of the Rhineland-Palatinate Ministry of Transport
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Old August 22nd, 2016, 08:49 PM   #8902
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I took a small roadtrip through Baden-Württemberg back in June. Here are some videos









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Old August 22nd, 2016, 09:04 PM   #8903
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Stuttgart has some interesting infrastructure. There is a large number of expressways, but their problem is the lack of interconnection between them. Basically A8 between AD Leonberg and AK Stuttgart is the only motorway to connect everything around Stuttgart (a region of 5.3 million people). It's a weak link. I think a northeastern ring road would be very beneficial, from A6 west of Heilbronn to A8 east of Stuttgart. Stuttgart is the most congested metropolitan area in Germany, according to the TomTom Traffic Index.
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Old August 22nd, 2016, 10:22 PM   #8904
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It's a bit ironic that the cradle of the automobile and home of Mercedes-Benz and Porsche lacks a proper road network, is there any particular reason why? And could it be that Reutlingen is the largest city without direct access to the Autobahn?
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Old August 22nd, 2016, 10:26 PM   #8905
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is there any particular reason why?
The Greens being in charge of road-related decisions in the State? I can't think of a more obvious reason.
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Old August 22nd, 2016, 10:45 PM   #8906
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The Greens being in charge of road-related decisions in the State? I can't think of a more obvious reason.
Baden-Württemberg was traditionally a stronghold of the CDU, which has been in power from 1953 until 2011, when a green–red coalition government was established. So this doesn't explain the whole story of Stuttgart's road network, especially since most was built during the reign of the conservatives.
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Old August 22nd, 2016, 11:49 PM   #8907
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The reason why there is no Autobahn ring planned for Stuttgart currently is because the state Greens have a wishlist for highways that's 11 billion Euro worth - and the state is only getting 300 million per year.

Originally, the Stuttgart was supposed to get a closed through building the A45 along the eastern side. That connection would basically have run from just east of where the A81 crosses the Neckar to the B14 near Backnang (planned as A85) to the B29 near Remshalden (planned as A87) to the B10 at Ebersbach (planned as A80) to the A8 at Kirchheim/Teck. Those plans were cancelled in the mid-70s, the spoke Autobahns were mostly cancelled around 1980 and were typically built as yellow Autobahns by then up to the point where the A45 would have connected them all.

There have since been occasional plans for the "Nordostring", mostly for upgrading and connecting B roads in that area, slightly closer to Stuttgart than the planned Autobahn, and basically also connecting the surrounding large suburbs. The only serious attempt started in 1996 and was cancelled in 2004 for environmental concerns (and threats of legal action from in particular Fellbach) by the federal Red-Green coalition.

The problem is mostly of a geographic nature. The A45 in the above 57 km section would have needed at least two new valley bridges and a tunnel, and the section between B29 and B10 (where those would have been built) is a nature protection zone or something like that.

P.S.: The A45 was planned to continue from Kirchheim/Teck as A84 to Reutlingen (and from there westwards across the Blackforest to France).
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Old August 24th, 2016, 08:16 PM   #8908
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The reason why there is no Autobahn ring planned for Stuttgart currently is because the state Greens have a wishlist for highways that's 11 billion Euro worth - and the state is only getting 300 million per year.
???

Strange figure but today's funding is definitely not the reason why there is no Autobahn ring.......

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Originally, the Stuttgart was supposed to get a closed through building the A45 along the eastern side.

[...]

cancelled in the mid-70s

[...]
Exactly! That's the reason why there's no Autobahn ring! It was canceled because of environmental issues and residents protest.

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There have since been occasional plans for the "Nordostring", mostly for upgrading and connecting B roads in that area, slightly closer to Stuttgart than the planned Autobahn, and basically also connecting the surrounding large suburbs. The only serious attempt started in 1996 and was cancelled in 2004 for environmental concerns (and threats of legal action from in particular Fellbach) by the federal Red-Green coalition.
Green-Red were not in charge in 2004. It was still CDU.
The federal Red-Green coalition approved the BVWP including a 2+2 expressway b/n B27 south of Ludwigsburg and B29 Waiblingen with further demand only (WB), that means BaWü state was not allowed to proceed planning. The project is called "Nordostring Stuttgart" (north east ring Stuttgart) although it's not a ring but a tangent only.

Nevertheless, a state-owned Neckar bridge (Landesstraße) was planned near Aldingen which should be part of the future B29 expressway. The plan approval procedure began in 2006 but was on hold since Green-Red was in charge in 2011. The plan approval procedure was officially stopped in 2014.

BaWü Green-Red coalition has not submitted the Nordostring for the new BVWP but the federal Ministry of Transport put it on the list. It has a higher priority now (WB*), that means still further demand but BaWü is allowed to design the project (but that's what they don't wanna do...).
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Old August 25th, 2016, 11:22 AM   #8909
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I took a small roadtrip through Baden-Württemberg back in June. Here are some videos









Nice videos! I also like the descriptions u make during the movie, it looks interesting
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Old August 26th, 2016, 08:32 PM   #8910
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It was canceled because of environmental issues and residents protest.
It was cancelled by the (CDU) government itself, not by any court like more recent plannings. That's the difference.

It's not exactly like the northeast needs a ring either nowadays.

A ring would only be highly beneficial for long-distance traffic coming from the north on the A81 and going to the southeast on the A8 (or vice versa). Anyone sane who wants to go southeast of Stuttgart will come in via the A8 from Karlsruhe though - and that includes truck traffic despite the steep gradients, mostly because the A6 is far too full already.
Anyone living in the northeast of Stuttgart and working on the other side of it should consider moving. It's not like Böblingen is any pricier than Waiblingen.

And that's aside from the fact that the Stuttgart region itself is way too suburban. It's about as bad as Berlin in that regard.
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Old August 27th, 2016, 11:41 AM   #8911
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It was cancelled by the (CDU) government itself, not by any court like more recent plannings. That's the difference.
Yes, because they recognized that there's a huge opposite (by their own voters) and it's hard (and expensive) to fulfill the environmental terms.

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A ring would only be highly beneficial for long-distance traffic coming from the north on the A81 and going to the southeast on the A8 (or vice versa).
Yes but this would relieve A8/A81 and B10 too.

B29 Nordostring Stuttgart is the only route which is still "planned" (it's a long story though).

B27 Ludwigsburg/Kornwestheim - B14/B29 Waiblingen/Fellbach; 2x2; 11.5km; > 200 million €; benefit-cost-relation > 10; map

It would improve traffic flow from Remstal to Ludwigsburg. Ludwigsburg has 90,000 inhabitants, Kornwestheim 30,000, Fellbach 45,000 and Waiblingen 50,000. In addition, there are many smaller towns and villages and towns behind. It would bypass Stuttgart in the north and relieve B14/B10 Kappelbergtunnel, that means the only "real" connection from northeast to the center of Stuttgart and all destinations south of Stuttgart including an improvement for the 15km route between the neighboring towns of Waiblingen (50,000 inhabitants) and Esslingen (90,000 inhabitants).

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Anyone living in the northeast of Stuttgart and working on the other side of it should consider moving. It's not like Böblingen is any pricier than Waiblingen.
You can recommend it but I think almost no one would do it, e.g. if the husband has a new job at a different location but the wife still works where they live or the children are integrated in school et cetera.

I know a guy living south of Esslingen (Southeast of Stuttgart) who worked in Waiblingen (northeast). 20km. He moved to a different department for a project with a period of 2 years. The office was in Feuerbach (northwest). 20km but via the most congested roads). After 1 year, the project team suddenly moved to Waiblingen. There are some bigger companies in Stuttgart region and (temporarily) moving to a different department is quite common. I don't think that many people move with each new job.

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And that's aside from the fact that the Stuttgart region itself is way too suburban. It's about as bad as Berlin in that regard.
But it is a top economical region. Public transport is not bad but has the same problem with the suburban structure that most busses or trains must cross the center of Stuttgart for all connections (the infamous Stuttgart 21 project is a different story though).

I'm just in Stuttgart for business trips. I come from the north and my destination is usually in the southeast, sometimes northeast, occasionally northwest. Colleagues who's destination is south of Stuttgart (south of Böblingen who have to drive A81-A8-A81) always laugh when I complain about traffic b/n Heilbronn and Zuffenhausen (B10, western access to the center of Stuttgart) because they say that A8 and southern A81 are much more congested.

I think that the central issue is that local and transit traffic have no alternative routes for each connection. I sometimes exit A81 at Mundelsheim or Pleidelsheim (just south of Heilbronn), take L1100 or L1115/B14 to Fellbach/Waiblingen. 2-laned roads with an AADT > 15,000 vehicles/day and a high truck share are not funny though... There's a lot of industry, that means truck traffic is usually local traffic.
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
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Old August 28th, 2016, 02:22 PM   #8912
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How long is Autobahn going to be free of charge? I've heard that German government wants to introduce pay toll on German roads.
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Old August 28th, 2016, 02:38 PM   #8913
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How long is Autobahn going to be free of charge? I've heard that German government wants to introduce pay toll on German roads.
there is no realistic szenario for a toll at the moment, means will be free in future

the EU stopped the national topics that only non germans have to pay, if there should be a toll everybody has to pay
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Old August 28th, 2016, 06:39 PM   #8914
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EU actually did not stop Ausländer-Maut (i.e. toll for foreigners only) but saying that they start to check it was enough for CSU party (initiaior of that toll) to surrender.
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Old August 28th, 2016, 07:56 PM   #8915
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How long is Autobahn going to be free of charge? I've heard that German government wants to introduce pay toll on German roads.
The law ("Infrastrukturabgabegesetz") came into force on 12th June 2015. The begin of charging has not yet published but it is/was planned for 2017.
Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maut#PKW-Maut.

EU commission criticized the law last April and expected an answer within 2 months. Bundesregierung answered in late June that they think the law is legal.
Next step: EU commission stops their procedure or a ECJ hearing.

Latest news article from Mid July 2016: http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nach...w-maut-003.htm.
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Old August 28th, 2016, 09:46 PM   #8916
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the law is legal.
The law should be legal. If Germans pay the tax and gas fees they should be liberated from paying the toll because they are maintaining the roads from their own funds.
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Old August 28th, 2016, 10:31 PM   #8917
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The law should be legal. If Germans pay the tax and gas fees they should be liberated from paying the toll because they are maintaining the roads from their own funds.
Go Germexit and do that.
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Old August 28th, 2016, 10:47 PM   #8918
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As far as I remember, the car toll has been "postponed" or "suspended", because the European Commission challenged it. They see a violation of EU treaties. The procedure is still-ongoing and awaiting the commencement of a suit before the European Court of Justice (see Wikipedia-link by Michi).
The point is not the introduction of a car toll, nor the reduction of the car tax. But the similarity results in a discrimination of EU-citizens, that is why the European Commission sees a violation of the EU contracts.

In my opinion the car toll is dead.

Angela Merkel had promised the voters that there will be no car toll.
The car toll made into the coaltion contract, a law was made, challenged by the EU, law suspended and left to be forgotten. Seehofer announced to retire in 2017 (before he'll be held responsible), Merkel keeps her promise (a diplomacy masterpiece).

Okay, in the meantime, Seehofer has decided to stay, but does anyone believe that any politician who is right in the head will push this topic just before the Federal elections? I don't even think that the ECJ suit will be finished before the elections, and afterwards, there will be a new coalition contract.
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Old August 28th, 2016, 11:13 PM   #8919
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does anyone believe that any politician who is right in the head
Talking about CSU party...

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will push this topic just before the Federal elections?
I think CSU will do. They've promised Bavarian voters to introduce a car toll for foreigners but without higher costs for Bavarians Germans.

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I don't even think that the ECJ suit will be finished before the elections, and afterwards, there will be a new coalition contract.
Yep, courts are damn slow... Merkel has postponed her decision again whether she will run for office again because of CSU party... CDU needs CSU and most of the Bavarian CSU voters would not elect any other party just because of this stupid toll because there would be no disadvantage for them.

Btw, next federal election is in fall 2017.
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Old August 29th, 2016, 12:31 AM   #8920
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Talking about CSU party...
They call him "Crazy Horst" and I think he likes it
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I think CSU will do. They've promised Bavarian voters to introduce a car toll for foreigners but without higher costs for Bavarians Germans.
Yeah, but at what price? Going to opposition next legislation period?
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