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Old February 23rd, 2017, 04:39 PM   #9161
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They would have to rebuild the old motorway.
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Old February 23rd, 2017, 06:17 PM   #9162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
That section has been finished years ago, just as you, too, wrote (Sep 2014). I drove there several times :-)
So what kind of sense does it have to challenge it? Theoretically, is it possible that this challange will be accepted. What could happen in this case?
Maybe people affected by the construction may want to get a refund.
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Old February 23rd, 2017, 07:25 PM   #9163
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Some years ago I`ve read that they want to build a new A8 from Aichelberg to Ulm vest. What happened to this project? Will they build new motorway or just reconstruct the old one?
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Old February 24th, 2017, 08:01 PM   #9164
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A8 Stuttgart - München

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Originally Posted by threo2k View Post
Some years ago I`ve read that they want to build a new A8 from Aichelberg to Ulm vest. What happened to this project? Will they build new motorway or just reconstruct the old one?
Yes and no. The existing A8 is only being widened to 2x3 lanes except the section from AS Mühlhausen to AS Merklingen where a new 2x3 alignment is planned (8km).

The widening west of Mühlhausen was completed in 2012. The widening from Merklingen to Ulm-West is u/c (23km; to be completed by late 2020). Ulm-West to AK Ulm/Elchingen (12km) is in early planning stage (it was announced that the plan approval procedure should begin in fall 2016 but it didn't happen).

The plan approval procedure for the new 8km 2x3 section began in 2004 but it was stopped in 2005 due to discussion about funding (it was planned to be tolled with toll booth). However, it was decided in Mid 2014 that it will be funded by federal budget. The plan approval procedure was announced to be started a.s.a.p.; It was annouced last November that it "could begin by the end of 2016"

It was announced that the construction works might begin in 2019 at the earliest and that the construction might be completed by 2025.

Project page: https://rp.baden-wuerttemberg.de/rps.../A8_S-Ulm.aspx



violet = existing Autobahn
red = new Autobahn

http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=48...94800&z=13&m=o

It's still Reichsautobahn standard, 2x2 w/o hard shoulders.
AADT 68,000 vehicles/day, 15% truck share.
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Old February 24th, 2017, 09:42 PM   #9165
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Is there any news regarding a possible widening of A8 Rosenheim - Salzburg?
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Old February 24th, 2017, 10:52 PM   #9166
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No update. Still in early planning stage, 2 plan approval procedures near Rosenheim are announced to be completed by late 2017/early 2018. Rosenheim - Traunstein got urgent demand with bottleneck elimination by the new BVWP 2030. Traunstein - Salzburg has further demand with planning right (which should mean that the latter sections will be widened after 2030).

The entire section has Reichsautobahn standard, 2x2 w/o hard shoulders. AADT is lower: 52,000-67,000 b/n Rosenheim and Traunstein (truck share 10-22%), 38,000*-49,000 vehicles/day, truck share ~15% b/n Traunstein and Salzburg.

*It might be a typo in the official AADT 2015 document. That means, AADT was most likely b/n 46,000 and 49,000 there.
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Old February 25th, 2017, 08:57 AM   #9167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Traunstein - Salzburg has further demand with planning right (which should mean that the latter sections will be widened after 2030).


I try to avoid this section as much as possible. There are certain hours when it is quite congested (it's capacity is low due to missing hard shoulder and tight curves), and every time there is an accident or so it becomes completely blocked. Plus 100-120 km/h speed limit (or even lower on the variable signs if there is bad weather)...
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Old February 25th, 2017, 12:47 PM   #9168
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I haven't driven that section since 1991 or 1992 (as a passenger). I drove the entire German Autobahn network as driver except A8 Rosenheim-Salzburg, a short A46 section near Düsseldorf (just as passenger in 1995 or 1997) and a short A9 section south of Berlin (drunk passenger in 2001)
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Old February 25th, 2017, 01:20 PM   #9169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I haven't driven that section since 1991 or 1992
It looks exactly the same now. Maybe the top asphalt layer has been changed, but there are no or minor other improvements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I drove the entire German Autobahn network as driver except ...
May I ask what you are doing for a living? German Autobahn network is quite a challenge due to it's length...
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Old February 25th, 2017, 07:11 PM   #9170
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Sometimes people need challenges
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Old February 27th, 2017, 11:03 PM   #9171
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A road-related legal first in Germany: the Landgericht in Berlin sentenced two young participants of an illegal street race (ending in a deadly accident) to life for the crime of murder. In addition, their driver's licenses are revoked for life.

http://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/to...d_6711265.html

In 2016, the two 25 and 28 year old men were racing each other in downtown Berlin in powerful sports cars, resulting in the 28-year old running a red light at 160 km/h and smashing into the jeep of an uninvolved driver. The jeep was thrown a distance of 72 meters by the impact, its 69-year-old driver killed on the spot.

The defendants and their entourage could not restrain themselves from interrupting the judge upon receiving the stiff sentence. One of the solicitors has already announced to appeal the verdict, so the case will have to be re-examined at Bundesgerichtshof.

After the 5 1/2 months of proceedings, the court was convinced that the two men had acted in complicity and with conditional intention. They did not have an explicit desire to kill, but have approved possible and likely deadly results in order to win the race. They have used their high-horsepowered sports cars as a means of danger to public safety.

For a murder charge, the (at least conditional) intention, and one of the murder characteristics (in this case, perpetrating the act with means of danger to public safety) are required, which the court found fulfilled in this case. The judge added this is a case-specific decision and not a demonstration of strength.

The defense lawyers emphasized that "the racers have faded out the risk while acting". This was not approved by the court. "Even a racer remains a person that has a head", said the judge. It would have been very clear to them that their extremely dangerous driving style may have a fatal outcome.

The prosecutor expressed hope that other racers will be frightened by this verdict. One of the sons of the killed uninvolved driver expressed relief upon learning the sentence.

A life sentence in Germany means a minimum of 15 years to be served.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 12:29 AM   #9172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvinus View Post
A road-related legal first in Germany: the Landgericht in Berlin sentenced two young participants of an illegal street race (ending in a deadly accident) to life for the crime of murder. In addition, their driver's licenses are revoked for life.

http://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/to...d_6711265.html

In 2016, the two 25 and 28 year old men were racing each other in downtown Berlin in powerful sports cars, resulting in the 28-year old running a red light at 160 km/h and smashing into the jeep of an uninvolved driver. The jeep was thrown a distance of 72 meters by the impact, its 69-year-old driver killed on the spot.

The defendants and their entourage could not restrain themselves from interrupting the judge upon receiving the stiff sentence. One of the solicitors has already announced to appeal the verdict, so the case will have to be re-examined at Bundesgerichtshof.

After the 5 1/2 months of proceedings, the court was convinced that the two men had acted in complicity and with conditional intention. They did not have an explicit desire to kill, but have approved possible and likely deadly results in order to win the race. They have used their high-horsepowered sports cars as a means of danger to public safety.

For a murder charge, the (at least conditional) intention, and one of the murder characteristics (in this case, perpetrating the act with means of danger to public safety) are required, which the court found fulfilled in this case. The judge added this is a case-specific decision and not a demonstration of strength.

The defense lawyers emphasized that "the racers have faded out the risk while acting". This was not approved by the court. "Even a racer remains a person that has a head", said the judge. It would have been very clear to them that their extremely dangerous driving style may have a fatal outcome.

The prosecutor expressed hope that other racers will be frightened by this verdict. One of the sons of the killed uninvolved driver expressed relief upon learning the sentence.

A life sentence in Germany means a minimum of 15 years to be served.
I think it's fair. If you race at 160kph across streets, you know you've a high chance to kill someone. So, if you accept that huge risk and decide to race anyway, you should be charged of volontary homicide, not unvolontary homicide (like when you're driving normally and someone crosses the street in front of you).
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old February 28th, 2017, 01:20 AM   #9173
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I quite agree. The only thing I would add is that if you race at 160kph on city streets and don't kill or injure anyone, you should still face a custodial sentence and 10 year+ driving ban, as you have taken a high risk of killing an innocent bystander and are a significant threat to the public. Yet in many European countries you would be let off with a slap on the wrist.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 02:48 PM   #9174
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Well, its true, there are not to much possibilities to appeal a plan approval.

First you can tell anything in the process. The administration needs to react to such pleas. If you think they missed the point, you can appeal at court twice, like MichiH said. Or only once in special cases he named.

But depending on your juristic cleverness there are other possibilities of course. For example it is necesarry to invite public to paticipate in the process. This invitation needs to be publicated for example 2 weeks before of the start of the process where you are allowed to look upon all plans etc., which itself takes maybe one month, and you can send your concerns until another two weeks after this month of inspection ends.

So of course you can appeal that the public was not invited early enough, or in the correct form, that your concerns were not considerated because they came to late etc. All this might be appealed against.

Also you might complain, that the plan was correct, but the works taking place did not follow the plan or that new concern arose later, because the process took so long. Sometimes the plan approval was restarted by the administration, because long time passed and appeals were likely. How long is too long? Depending on court findings not more than 10 years should go by i think. But if in between any new knowledge arises, which was not taken into consideration, this might also be a problem.

Of course there is the possibility to make an amendment to the plan appproval, not to start it all over again.

Last but not least it is possible to appeal the court findings at Supreme court. But thats not about the task itself, its only possible to appeal that the court findings were not done according to the rules how the court should work. So its about the process itself, not about the decision.

In fact any of such things can happen, things built different than planned etc. So there must be the right to appeal against. But sometimes its just a fun for some to use each and every possibility to slow down the process, because even stupid appeals need to be decided. But not all appeals delay the construction works. The court can decide for example, that these appeal is to a minor point, so its not necessary to stop construction.

Generally speaking i was in such processes on local level. And thats complicated enough. I don't want to know what it means to build bigger things than an cycling path.

The question for me is: Does this process really give possibilities to make things better? For me it's not so clear. You can appeal the plan approval, but at this point no bigger changes happen. You cannot paticipate before, where it is decided what to build, if it makes sense there, jsut the general or basic decisions. You just can appeal something, when the administration already finished a long process what they want to do. That can be frustrating. I followed the process for a new Tram track. There were much ideas about different questions: Where should the stops be, where should the track be in general. In fact nice officials said "Thank you" for each and every thought, and at the end it was built almost exactly like initially planned.

Of course every plea was answered. But the numbers why something might be possible or not, or useful or not are calculated by the sam officials who planned the construction. If they want it to look useful, it always will.

So i miss the will to really react on the peoples ideas in the beginning of the process. If people feel helpless and unnoticed they likely foolow the path of obstruction. The appeal anything just out of hate for the officials. I saw both sides. I think communication is failing more and more. Its more and more confrontation. Its getting more and more trumped you can say, but from both sides.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 04:40 PM   #9175
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I have some photos of A72 Borna-Rötha.

This map schows where they were taken.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=13V...g0&usp=sharing

Point A:
This is were the motorway actually ends. When this part was built in 2006 as Borna bypass it directly merged into B95. Now the end of motorway is demolished, there is a temporary exit. Where once was the busiest crossing will only a bridge for cyclists and passengers remain. Building ca start only after the new track of B176 is ready, so that the old alignment of B17´6/B95 can be demolished there.

Point B:

Point C:
At this place the new track of B176 will cross the motorway. The now B95 to the north will reduced to 1 lane per direction later. The small southward piece will reduced to a small neighborhood street. The construction of this bridge started. Also this will be place of I/C Borna-north

Point D:
Here the bridge of motorway over a small acess road is already finished.

Point E:
Here the construction of the bridge over the small stream Eula started.

Point F:
Here the bridge is ready for maybe a year now. The raod over it connects small villages, the motorway will be under it.

Point G:
Some stabilisation works were necessary here, as the motorway track is very close to the corner of this lake. It was a surface mine before like many other lakes in the region.

Point H:
Another difficult point. Before there was a I/C here between B95 and S48. As B95 would reduced to 2 lanes it would get a simple crossing. Instead a I/C to the parallel motorway would require a new bridge. The old one is demolished now. The new one is not under construction yet. It is the last bridge necessary to built this section of the motorway.

Point I: Here the bridge is also ready for quite a time. Now the new connector road is open. The old one is cut by the motorway alignment. So this road got a new alignment south of the motorway. Under the bridge it connects to Espenhain. The bridge is located there because this way also cyleways to the lake can be connected without another bridge. It will take a while until trees around the lake a grown, but it evolves to a place for leisure already, like the other lakes do. Also at this place the motorway alignment is very close to the lake. Because of this here is another critical point, where stabilisation works are taking place.

Point K:
This bridge is also ready for quite a while now. Over it goes just another small connector road. There is nothing special here.

Point L:
As the section Borna-Rötha will be ready eralier than the following (and last) section of the motorway, this is also a bit more of a tricky place. The bridge is already built, it will carry the reduced B95 over the motorway. a bit to the north a railway bridge will be nevessary, which is just to start construction now. The connection might have only one lane per direction and could thus be a bottleneck.

Another nice Map i found:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...485905991&z=13

I might have asked before: How can i post the pictures themselves? If i put them into the google Map they are way to small. They are on my harddisk now. If using an uploader they should be available longer than just two weeks. TY
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 05:06 PM   #9176
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A99 München

There are a lot of construction works on A99 (the Munich Ring Road) this year and during the next couple of years.

First, they will start the eight-laning of A99 around the east side of München. The first phase is a 7 kilometer segment from Kreuz München-Nord (A9/A99) to the new Aschheim/Ismaning interchange. In 2017, the north carriageway from the Isar Bridge to Kreuz München-Nord will be expanded to four lanes. Four bridges will also be replaced. In 2018, the south carriageway (towards Salzburg) will be expanded to four lanes. In 2019 the north carriageway will be expanded from Aschheim/Ismaning to the Isar Bridge.

They will use a 6+0 construction zone, meaning that all six lanes will be on one side of the Autobahn. However that also means that the shoulder lanes will not be available, which will likely create a lot of additional congestion, in particular over the summer.

Furthermore, the bridges of A94 over A99 at Kreuz München-Ost will be replaced, this will take several years.

In addition, the bridge of A99 over A92 and the railroad at Dreieck München-Feldmoching will be replaced this year. There will be temporary bridges.

Also, the old B471 bridge across A99 will be replaced this year. This is close to the eight-laning scheme.

So there will be four major construction zones on A99 this year.

Planning has also started for an expansion of the northern part of A99, in particular they are planning a third tube at the Allach Tunnel, which is just east of where A8 traffic from Augsburg merges onto A99. They plan to use shoulder lanes as an interim solution until the actual expansion begins.

The eight-laning of A99 around the east side of Munich will move south in phases, so there are likely years of construction ahead with reduced capacity (no shoulder lanes). This will create significant additional congestion in particular in July and early August, when the summer exodus uses A99 to get around the city, as well as during the 2017-2018 winter sport season and beyond.
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 07:26 PM   #9177
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What about the south section of A99? That will ease transit traffic on the direction Salzburg - Stuttgart.
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 07:30 PM   #9178
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It was scrapped from the most recent version of the Bundesverkehrswegeplan, so it almost definitely won't be built until the 2030s or later.
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 11:23 PM   #9179
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A99 south was not in BVWP2003 and it was not submitted by Bavaria for BVWP 2030. It was only discussed to be submitted in 2013 but rejected.
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Old March 6th, 2017, 03:30 AM   #9180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryme Intrinseca View Post
I quite agree. The only thing I would add is that if you race at 160kph on city streets and don't kill or injure anyone, you should still face a custodial sentence and 10 year+ driving ban, as you have taken a high risk of killing an innocent bystander and are a significant threat to the public. Yet in many European countries you would be let off with a slap on the wrist.
That's a point I'm often insisting on: in my view there should be no legal difference between a risky action ending in a crash and the same action which by luck ended into nothing.
I don't get the point of laws imposing sentences only in case of provoked accidents.
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