daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 10th, 2017, 11:10 PM   #9341
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19365

Rest areas are unwanted by neighbors due to trucks noise (idling, backup beepers, etc.) pollution (again, idling and parking) and shady business some rest areas attract.

These concerns are understandable, but there is a severe lack of parking capacity along the Autobahn in Germany. I have to laugh about American truck stops being considered 'full' with orderly rows of trucks and 100 ft / 30 m of free space to pull out , in Germany they would create more rows of parked trucks to the point you almost cannot get out of a parking spot without some crazy 9-point turn.

__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

JuergenSchT, simondanut liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 12th, 2017, 01:27 PM   #9342
Grotlaufen
Registered User
 
Grotlaufen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 239
Likes (Received): 173

Quote:
Originally Posted by hjf View Post

Why there is no separation of short and long distance traffic at Bremen and Hamburg at the river crossings, is beyond me. On the other hand, it is a good example, why long distance routes should be planned and constructed at some distance of the center of metropolitan areas to have some kind of natural separation.
I guess a great reason for this in Hamburg at least is due to the old BRD-GDR border being about 50 kms east of Hamburg. Before 1990 there was mostly transit traffic to and from Scandinavia (A7 to Jutland, A1 to Travemünde/Puttgarden ferries). Thus the current roads were sufficient back then, before you had A20 holiday traffic and transit to/from Poland. And we all know about the non-flexible German infrastructure planning approval system (not to mention that Hamburg unlike the two other city states Bremen and Berlin is surrounded by two states with their respective borders in the Elbe - Niedersachsen and Schleswig-Holstein need to be coordinated as well which adds to the burden in planning).

Quote:
Elbe:
B404 near Geesthacht or B191 near Wittenberge. Not great alternatives either. Coming from Munich going north, you may want to go via Berlin, which is not that great either, since you have to negotiate the A24 north of Berlin, which is a congestion hot spot.

If going from Hannover to Lübeck on a Saturday or Sunday in the summer, would A7 to Seevetal->A39-> B404 be the best option then? I see that you avoid A1/A24 congestion hot spot east of Hamburg but it seems to me that B404 makes some funny detours around Geesthacht-Schwarzenbek. How many hours of stau on the A1 is needed before this alternative becomes the fastest-'best' option?
Grotlaufen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2017, 04:48 PM   #9343
TrojaA
ß-Retter
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Weltbürger
Posts: 100
Likes (Received): 341

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grotlaufen View Post
If going from Hannover to Lübeck on a Saturday or Sunday in the summer, would A7 to Seevetal->A39-> B404 be the best option then? I see that you avoid A1/A24 congestion hot spot east of Hamburg but it seems to me that B404 makes some funny detours around Geesthacht-Schwarzenbek. How many hours of stau on the A1 is needed before this alternative becomes the fastest-'best' option?
If you really want to drive on a sunday in holiday's season, then you shouldn't take the A7 at all. The following alternatives/options advisable as of 1h+ extra time which you'll reach easily also during day currently.
From Hannover the best alternative would be:
As the first segment you should take:
  • B3 Celle -> B191 to Uelzen / B4 Uelzen Lüneburg
Here you've two options crossing the Elbe:
  • Geesthacht
  • Lauenburg
But keep in mind the Geesthacht crossing seems to be a little more crowded during rush hours and also during holiday travel times.
I guess this is, because satnav will promote this as an alternative to A7/A1, too. (It's close enough for their algorithms if you're on either A7 or A1).

For the third and last segment you've also two options:
  • From Schwarzenbek via B404 to A1
  • From Schwarzenbek via B207 Ratzeburg to Lübeck/A20
With the later option being the shorter one. Both will take the same amount of time, so if you want to play it safe, take option 2.

Or your best alternative: Avoid the misery altogether and drive early in the morning. ;-)

Last edited by TrojaA; July 12th, 2017 at 05:36 PM.
TrojaA no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2017, 05:07 PM   #9344
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19365

A7 has quite a lot of congestion in the Soltau / Walsrode area in both directions, even on Sundays.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2017, 08:03 PM   #9345
Grotlaufen
Registered User
 
Grotlaufen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 239
Likes (Received): 173

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrojaA View Post
If you really want to drive on a sunday in holiday's season, then you shouldn't take the A7 at all. The following alternatives/options advisable as of 1h+ extra time which you'll reach easily also during day currently.
From Hannover the best alternative would be:
As the first segment you should take:
  • B3 Celle -> B191 to Uelzen / B4 Uelzen Lüneburg
Here you've two options crossing the Elbe:
  • Geesthacht
  • Lauenburg
But keep in mind the Geesthacht crossing seems to be a little more crowded during rush hours and also during holiday travel times.
I guess this is, because satnav will promote this as an alternative to A7/A1, too. (It's close enough for their algorithms if you're on either A7 or A1).

For the third and last segment you've also two options:
  • From Schwarzenbek via B404 to A1
  • From Schwarzenbek via B207 Ratzeburg to Lübeck/A20
With the later option being the shorter one. Both will take the same amount of time, so if you want to play it safe, take option 2.

Or your best alternative: Avoid the misery altogether and drive early in the morning. ;-)

Thanks for the input. In my mind it should be easier to travel in northbound direction (except by Hamburg) this weekend and until end of July as holiday traffic is going from north to the south right now.


As for why anyone would drive on a weekend in July, well I have Scandinavian friends who sometimes have their vacations in the Mediterranean and stay overnight somewhere in the middle of Germany (Kassel 300 kms south of Hamburg is a very popular spot, many of the motels there next to A7 are busy with Scandinavian guests from bus tour companies as an example. Remember the ferries mean an involuntary break in the driving schedule coming from the north, and coming from the south it's around 1000 kms and Alpine crossings coming from the Mediterranean to Kassel). And sometimes they're limited to driving on weekends (schedules etc). If you want to reach the ports in northern Germany (Kiel/Puttgarden/Travemünde/Rostock/Sassnitz) you have no other effective choice but to go by Hamburg/Berlin with risk for staus.
Grotlaufen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2017, 06:34 PM   #9346
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,403
Likes (Received): 2081

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
The construction of the 2nd carriageway west of Worms will begin next week and the construction period is 5 months, see press release.
The construction of the Worms bypass is split into 2 lots. The construction of the 1st lot will begin this summer. The announced opening is 2019. The 2nd lot is announced to be built from 2018 to 2022. See press release and a recently published project info.

B47: AS Worms (A61) – AS Worms-West 2.1km (May 2016 to October 2016) [2nd c/w] – projectmap
The 2nd c/w will be completed in November 2016. Afterwards, the 1st c/w will be closed due to renovation works. 4 lanes will be in service from December 2016 (which was previously announced for October 2016). Source.
The new c/w will be put into service this weekend. However, the renovation of the old c/w is announced to be completed by spring 2017 instead of December 2016 now. The section will feature 4 lanes afterwards. Source.
It was completed at time but the B47 is also renovated at the A61 interchange now and the 2nd carriageway is closed. I don't know if both carriageways on the widened section have ever been in service but I guess they weren't. The renovation works are announced to last from May to early September 2017, see latest press release from 17th July. I guess that the widened section will be opened 2x2 in early September.
__________________

Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2017, 11:35 AM   #9347
Exethalion
Remember Me
 
Exethalion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 845
Likes (Received): 645

I'm not sure exactly where it was, I think it was the on-ramp from the B13 going to A3 West near Würzburg. But in the roadworks there, that on-ramp abruptly ended at a stop sign with a queue of cars waiting to leave. I was quite gobsmacked when I saw it. There was no acceleration lane whatsoever.
Exethalion no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2017, 06:20 PM   #9348
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,403
Likes (Received): 2081

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exethalion View Post
I'm not sure exactly where it was, I think it was the on-ramp from the B13 going to A3 West near Würzburg. But in the roadworks there, that on-ramp abruptly ended at a stop sign with a queue of cars waiting to leave. I was quite gobsmacked when I saw it. There was no acceleration lane whatsoever.
Yep, it's AS Würzburg/Randersacker heading to Nuremberg (on the left):


ABDNB, Hajo Dietz (May 2017)

I drove there 4 weeks ago and there was a long truck tailback (~2km) on the right lane. Trucks stopped s that cars could merge onto the Autobahn. I drove slowly on the left lane (I think the limit is 80km/h). About 500m after the interchange, there are four lanes towards Nuremberg*. I could easily reach 200+ km/h uphill.

*The on-ramp will get the right (4th) lane once the widening section will be completed in late 2019.



A pic of the Talbrücke Heidingsfeld from July 2017 (the new lane and the "tunnel" are lower than the old bridge on the right.



http://www.a3-wuerzburg.de/
__________________

Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)

Luki_SL, ChrisZwolle, junky, cinxxx, SRC_100 and 2 others liked this post
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2017, 09:55 PM   #9349
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19365

B85 Roding

The four-lane expansion of B85 at Roding (Bavaria) started today.


Spatenstich B85 bei Roding mit BM Dobrindt by BM für Verkehr und digitale Infrastruktur, on Flickr
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

Luki_SL, Blackraven liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2017, 11:23 PM   #9350
cinxxx
I ♥ Timişoara
 
cinxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: München
Posts: 22,234
Likes (Received): 18298

4 years for 3.4 km? WOW
cinxxx no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2017, 01:54 AM   #9351
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,371
Likes (Received): 746

what in the heck is that ridiculous shed the guy is standing in?
__________________
100 coups de fouet, si vous n'êtes pas morts de rire !

Wilhem275 liked this post
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2017, 01:58 AM   #9352
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,731
Likes (Received): 766

Probably he served some beers right after the speech
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

Blackraven, SRC_100, Shenkey liked this post
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2017, 11:11 PM   #9353
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19365

It is past 10 p.m. and Kreuz Walldorf (A5/A6) is completely jammed in all directions. Google Maps shows 1 hour delays in both directions on A5. What is going on there?

edit: according to traffic information they closed two lanes on A5 in both directions, so there is only single lane traffic. On the night before Southern Germany start their summer vacation...


Last edited by ChrisZwolle; July 27th, 2017 at 11:33 PM.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2017, 12:12 AM   #9354
cinxxx
I ♥ Timişoara
 
cinxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: München
Posts: 22,234
Likes (Received): 18298

They always do this shit before major vacations.
They also love organizing special transports or start other major construction zones exactly during rush hours.

I"m beginning to think it must be some Schadenfreude against those people traveling.
cinxxx no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2017, 03:41 AM   #9355
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
They always do this shit before major vacations.
They also love organizing special transports or start other major construction zones exactly during rush hours.

I"m beginning to think it must be some Schadenfreude against those people traveling.


Yeah, after two days of Autobahn driving last summer I began to think the no-speed-limits thing was a myth. Between Stauen, heavy traffic and actual speed limits in urban areas....

I found driving in France much more enjoyable.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2017, 09:13 AM   #9356
TrojaA
ß-Retter
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Weltbürger
Posts: 100
Likes (Received): 341

^^ There is definitly an east-west gap. I've never experienced a traffic jam in Eastern Germany (apart from A100 in Berlin, but that's no Autobahn for long distance travels).
Then again in northern Germany it'll be okayish once all of A7 & A1 are s3+3s. With one major exception: Hamburg. It'll always be a bottleneck without a second Elbe crossing.

But in southern Germany and the Rhine-Ruhr region there is a heavy lack of capacity and an annoying load of Baustellen.
Hopefully this situation will change someday ...
__________________

Penn's Woods liked this post
TrojaA no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2017, 01:51 PM   #9357
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrojaA View Post
There is definitly an east-west gap. I've never experienced a traffic jam in Eastern Germany (apart from A100 in Berlin, but that's no Autobahn for long distance travels).

Then again in northern Germany it'll be okayish once all of A7 & A1 are s3+3s. With one major exception: Hamburg. It'll always be a bottleneck without a second Elbe crossing.



But in southern Germany and the Rhine-Ruhr region there is a heavy lack of capacity and an annoying load of Baustellen.

Hopefully this situation will change someday ...


I did Offenbach to the border at Saarbrücken on Thursday, June 30th; and the Dutch border back to O'bach (entirely on the A3) on Monday, July 11th. In between, I was in France and the Benelux.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2017, 03:29 PM   #9358
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19365

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrojaA View Post
There is definitly an east-west gap. I've never experienced a traffic jam in Eastern Germany (apart from A100 in Berlin, but that's no Autobahn for long distance travels).
Google Maps reports frequent congestion at the A9, A10 and A14 construction zones. They are replacing the inferior quality concrete that suffers from 'concrete cancer' on A9 and A14. It will take a long time to replace hundreds of kilometers of carriageway.

Also, A19 has a nasty construction zone at Malchow. Long delays can be expected there during the summer weekends, in both directions. Additionally, A24 also gets overloaded from Wittstock to Havelland during the 'Bettenwechsel' at the coast. Not completely jammed but Google Maps reports long stretches with slow moving traffic (1 - 1.5 hours to travel 60-80 km).

A2, A4 and A38 in eastern Germany appear to have little congestion. A20 can get congested if there are construction zones, for example at Lübeck and on past weekends also near Pasewalk.
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

TrojaA liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2017, 07:50 PM   #9359
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,885
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
They always do this shit before major vacations.
Not before but during vacation times. And quite rightly so. It is after all the time of the year when the economically relevant part of traffic is at its lowest.
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2017, 07:58 PM   #9360
Bender
Rugged Individualist
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Düsseldorf, Le Reich
Posts: 3,093
Likes (Received): 116

I have driven ~1,500 km in Germany and Austria this last week. The number of Baustellen is incredible. And the number of "Wir bauen für Sie" with a past due date is also pretty high.
__________________

cinxxx, Kpc21 liked this post
Bender no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autobahn, baustelle, congestion, germany, highways, marode brücken, motorways, stau

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium