daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 23rd, 2008, 09:27 PM   #1521
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

Just repaving maybe?
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 23rd, 2008, 09:38 PM   #1522
PLH
Moderator
 
PLH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Warszawa / Łódź
Posts: 11,841
Likes (Received): 2823

With trucks driving on it?
__________________
Respect .
PLH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 10:24 PM   #1523
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

Shit, I didn't see the sign. It doesn't seem that they are checking trucks, so I have no idea what else it could be for.
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 10:38 PM   #1524
PLH
Moderator
 
PLH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Warszawa / Łódź
Posts: 11,841
Likes (Received): 2823

Knowing Germans, and that former checks are on the Polish side, they might have prepared a spot to check trucks entering Poland. I wouldn't be surprised when it turns out to be true.
__________________
Respect .
PLH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 10:40 PM   #1525
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

Is there no room to do that in the former checkpoint?
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 10:46 PM   #1526
PLH
Moderator
 
PLH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Warszawa / Łódź
Posts: 11,841
Likes (Received): 2823

But it's our side, maybe they want to have their own place? Don't forget Germans are weird
__________________
Respect .
PLH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 24th, 2008, 12:34 AM   #1527
AL-KS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 308
Likes (Received): 7

In my opinion, Germany has the best motorways on earth!
AL-KS no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 24th, 2008, 11:43 AM   #1528
H123Laci
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Budapest, HUN
Posts: 1,647
Likes (Received): 3

and what about spain?

thats also not a spain in the ass...
H123Laci no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 24th, 2008, 02:32 PM   #1529
scotdaliney
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 995
Likes (Received): 130

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Officially, the minimum distance advertised by the Dutch government is 2 seconds. If everyone would do that during rushhours, traffic jams would double they are now. The fact that people are driving close to eachother reduces some near-congestion stretches of actual congestion. However, when it rains, people tend to have a safer distance, and hence traffic jams increase.

It was the Coentunnel in Amsterdam that had 3.000 vehicles/hour/lane.
I thought it was considered by traffic flow theorist's that increasing distances between cars reduced congestion.?
scotdaliney no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 24th, 2008, 02:35 PM   #1530
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19366

I believe that has more to do with traffic that can merge from ramps without disrupting the flow. (thus not causing congestion).
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 25th, 2008, 10:51 AM   #1531
Morsue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 1,282
Likes (Received): 46

Maybe we should differentiate between capacity and congestion. Lower speeds and greater distances reduce congestion, but also reduce capacity. Higher speeds and smaller distances increase capacity but also the risk of congestion. Or am I wrong?
Morsue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 25th, 2008, 12:22 PM   #1532
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19366

There's some argue about what is the best speed that gives the highest capacity, but 90 km/h is often named. Higher speeds do not result in higher capacity due to the longer following distance in meters (hence less vehicles per kilometer lane).
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 25th, 2008, 01:38 PM   #1533
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

90 km/h is just too slow for a motorway IMO. Especially in Germany

It might be a good solution to higher the Vmax from 80 to 90 km/h on the Dutch motorways with Vmax 80 km/h.
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 25th, 2008, 01:53 PM   #1534
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19366

You can install dynamic speed limits around urban centers. Lower during rushhour (more capacity), and higher outside rushhour (more comfortable speeds). I saw that already in operation near Bremen;

[IMG]http://i39.************/24cvdsj.jpg[/IMG]
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2008, 12:58 AM   #1535
Des
Traveller
 
Des's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MUC
Posts: 2,431
Likes (Received): 802

I drove through Germany again today, faced the worst non-rush hour congestion I ever had

What I'm wondering is why it's taking so long to upgrade the last remaining 2x2 bits on the A8 between Karlsruhe and Stuttgart to 2x3? And on the A96 is still quite a long bit of 2x1 between Memmingen and Bregenz that still hasn't been upgraded to 2x2. It feels like they have been working on it for ages but without making any real progress...
__________________
Car News
Des no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2008, 05:32 PM   #1536
909
-
 
909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,418

Just a few pictures i made yesterday.

01) This is the Beeckerwerther Brücke over the river Rhine, on the Bundesautobahn 42. This Autobahn is colloquially known as Emscherschnellweg, after the river Emscher, which it roughly follows. The bridge has a length of 1030 m and was finished in 1990.
Although this pic is taken from the city Moers, this bridge connects Duisburg-Beeckerwerth with Duisburg-Baerl. We can see a part of the the enourmous complex of the ThyssenKrupp steelplant in Duisburg-Beeckerwerth. Because of all the heavy industry, this Autobahn offers some quite interesting views of an industrial skyline.




02) This is the Bundesautobahn 59, which connects Dinslaken (just north of Duisburg) with the cities Duisburg, Düsseldorf and Cologne to Bonn. The only issue here is that this Autobahn runs with three breaks, it isn't one continius Autobahn. Does anyone know why?




03) A zoomed version of the previous pic. We can see the Kreuz (intersection) of the A59 and A42. Notice the pipe crossing the road, remember: this is Duisburg, the industrial heart of Ruhr area. This pipe is part of the Landschaftspark, an abandoned coal and steel production plant.

__________________
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player. That struts and frets his hour upon the stage. And then is heard no more: it is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
909 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2008, 06:28 PM   #1537
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19366

Quote:
Originally Posted by Des View Post
I drove through Germany again today, faced the worst non-rush hour congestion I ever had
I know the feeling. Avoiding rushhour, and still get in a big traffic jam. I once spend 1 hour for 1 kilometer near Düsseldorf on a Sunday afternoon. Nearly no traffic before and after the jam, very strange. An accident didn't happen.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2008, 06:45 PM   #1538
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19366

Quote:
Originally Posted by 909 View Post
Bundesautobahn 59, which connects Dinslaken (just north of Duisburg) with the cities Duisburg, Düsseldorf and Cologne to Bonn. The only issue here is that this Autobahn runs with three breaks, it isn't one continius Autobahn. Does anyone know why?
I think the Duisburg - Düsseldorf connection can easily be made, but a route through Düsseldorf would be very expensive (tunnels), and not really necessary. It's better to streamline some existing streets and Autobahnen around the city than cut right through it. The A3 runs a few kilometers to the east, the A57 a few kilometers to the west. I don't think N-S traffic is very heavy here that it requires a third N-S route in a small area.

The part through Köln has kind of the same reasons, the A59 ends just 2 kilometers west of the N-S A3, which recently saw an expansion of lanes (2x4). Also, the A57/A1/A4/A555 is an alternative route bypassing the city on the left bank of the Rhein river.

I also wonder if it was ever meant that the A59 would continue northwards to the A3 somewhere over time...
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2008, 04:03 AM   #1539
Patrick
✪ DWF ✪ Alaaf! ✪
 
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Grafschaft Wied
Posts: 2,626
Likes (Received): 888

autobahnatlas-online.de and german wikipedia say:

Quote:
Vom Autobahnkreuz Leverkusen-West (A 1) sollte die A 59 ursprünglich weiter führen und nördlich von Köln-Mülheim auf den Ostteil des Kölner Autobahnrings (A 3) stoßen, wo die Autobahn bis zum Dreieck Heumar parallel zur A 3 verlaufen sollte, wobei die Fahrspuren in Richtung Süden westlich und die in Richtung Norden östlich der A 3 geplant waren. Das Autobahnkreuz Köln-Ost wurde Anfang der 1970er Jahre bereits für diese Verkehrsführung geplant und mit entsprechenden Brückenbauwerken für eine weitere Autobahn erbaut.
it was planned to continue the A59 Düsseldorf-Köln from the current south-end in Northeast of Köln to Köln-Mülheim, where it would meet the A3. It was planned to built parallel lines to the A3 between the point where the A59 hits it and Dreieck Heumar, the current north-end of the A59 Köln-Bonn. The Interchange Köln-Ost (A3, A4, B55n) has been built allowing these plans, that's why it has bridges with are bigger than actually will have needed later.

http://autobahnatlas-online.de/Planu...arteOhneAS.pdf
http://maps.google.de/maps/ms?ie=UTF...19226&t=k&z=16

the missing part between Duisburg and Düsseldorf will be replaced by a Gelbe Autobahn, the B8n.
Patrick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2008, 10:37 AM   #1540
HAWC1506
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bellevue, WA + Munich, Bavaria
Posts: 1,280
Likes (Received): 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
There's some argue about what is the best speed that gives the highest capacity, but 90 km/h is often named. Higher speeds do not result in higher capacity due to the longer following distance in meters (hence less vehicles per kilometer lane).
I had a VERY long conversation about this issue with a Washington State transportation engineer. The typical thing that happens is that at lower speeds, the distance between vehicles shrinks. But the slower you go, the more congestion there is (less vehicles can travel through a certain point on the highway) and that reduces capacity. If you travel faster, then the distance between vehicles increases, but that reduces capacity. A recent study showed that the speed that allows for the largest capacity lies at around 45 mph (72 km/h). The graph looks a bit like this rough sketch I made in Powerpoint:



Like you mentioned, Chris, there are plans to install variable signs. In Washington, the first ones to go up will be on I-405, and the speeds are supposed to drop down to as low as 45 mph in order to maximise capacity. And guess what? The technology is based on the system used in the Netherlands! Document here: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres...lio_Sept07.pdf

Now the immediate question I thought of (but didn't ask because I was stupid) while I was having the conversation is the definition of capacity. Does it mean:

1. Getting as many cars as you can onto the roadway, OR
2. Getting as many cars as you can onto the roadway WHILE allowing as many cars as you can to travel through a point in a given time, OR
3. Getting as many cars as you can onto the roadway WHILE allowing as many cars as you can to travel from point A to point B in a given time.

I'm pretty sure the graph above does not measure definition number one because if you wanted to get as many cars as you can onto the highway, you can drop the speed limit down to 1 km/h and have everyone leave a 20cm distance between their cars. So I'm still wondering whether the graph was based on:

1. Moving as many cars as you can through a point, OR
2. Moving as many cars as you can from point A to point B

Or the two might be essentially the same thing. I don't know, but I think I'm going to email the engineer again.

Last edited by HAWC1506; December 28th, 2008 at 11:30 AM.
HAWC1506 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autobahn, baustelle, congestion, germany, highways, marode brücken, motorways, stau

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium